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M5 MacBook Pro

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Re: M5 MacBook Pro

#261

Post by Topfi »

daft_pink wrote: post #38

Apple’s chip release schedule is so borked. It should be High end Pro and Studio first and then iPad, Air, Mini and downgraded Pro. Why they release the iPad and Low End Pro is beyond me. Everyone buying their high end gear is buying something waiting to be refreshed now.

Hasn't that been the case throughout the industry for the last two decades now? Back when Intel was still on TikTok, the low powered laptop chips were always first, then mainstream desktop, then workstation and server roughly a year delayed. Maybe mistaken, but seems to make sense, if you mainly offer monolithic chips, you'd want to start with a smaller Die size to better leverage the process.

AMD is somewhat of an exception/unique case though, having chipsets and monolithic depending on the use case and console/semicustom offerings, so that doesn't map fully.

Also, let's not forget in Apples case, that they actually go phone first, the Air+iPad, then Pro and finally Studio. Feel that the lower end devices should priority personally though, efficiency gains are more valuable in connected devices with limited space for batteries over my 16 incher with 100wh.

Course, would be nice if we just got the entire range updated at once, but I doubt even Apple could pull such a supply chain miracle off, even if they bought all of TSMC and the entire island to boot...

Re: M5 MacBook Pro

#262

Post by jasonthorsness »

rogerrogerr wrote: post #164
jasonthorsness wrote: post #143

I've been a Windows fan forever, but the new Mac hardware is making it hard to remain and it's about time for a new laptop... can't get a good Windows installed on these chips like you could on the Intel-based ones, only virtualized.

Virtualized Windows on M chips is quicker than non-virtualized Windows on your average corporate laptop in my experience.

Wow maybe it's worth a try

Re: M5 MacBook Pro

#263

Post by root_axis »

0xfaded wrote: post #52

To any Linux users, I recently bought a fully loaded M4 MacBook pro to replace my aging Lenovo and strongly regret it. I thought I would use it for playing with LLMs, but local dev on a Mac is not fun and I still don't have it fully set up. I'll probably replace it with a framework at some point in the near future. Edit: okay, that garnered more attention than I expected, I guess I owe a qualification. 1. Everything…

Yes, macOS sucks compared to Linux, but the m chip gets absolutely incredible battery life, whereas the framework gets terrible battery life. I still use my framework at work though.

Re: M5 MacBook Pro

#264

Post by saltcured »

platevoltage wrote: post #243
tracker1 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the hardest part for me, is getting used to using CMD vs CTRL for cut-copy-paste, then when I start to get used to it... in a terminal, it breaks me out with a different key for Ctrl+C. I got used to Ctrl+Shift for terminals in Linux (and Windows) for cut-copy-paste, etc. It may seem like a small thing, but when you have literal decades of muscle memory working against you, it's not that small.

I'm a lifelong Mac user, so obviously I'm used to using CMD instead of CTRL. Inside the terminal we use CTRL for things like CTRL-C to exit a CLI application. What messes me up when I'm working on a linux machine is not being able to do things like copy/paste text from the terminal with a hotkey combo because there is no CMD-C, and CTRL-C already has a job other than copying. IMO apple really messed up by putting the…

As a very long-term Linux user, I'm still aggravated when implicit copy and middle-click paste doesn't just work between some apps, since it is so deeply embedded in my muscle memory!

Re: M5 MacBook Pro

#265

Post by brailsafe »

Probably great, but when the hell are they going to do another damn colour. Hoping by the time I upgrade from the M4 Pro they'll have a green version and a cell modem.

Re: M5 MacBook Pro

#266

Post by PeterCorless »

Someone I know saw the 14" starts from $1,599 and the 16" starts at $2,499, and quipped "The most expensive 2 inches ever."

However, it is not just because of the larger display.

M5 14" starts at:

10-Core CPU

10-Core GPU

16GB Unified Memory

512GB SSD Storage

M5 16" starts at:

14-Core CPU

20-Core GPU

24GB Unified Memory

512GB SSD Storage

So it's the cost of 4x more core CPU, 10x (double) the core GPU, and +8GB memory.

Re: M5 MacBook Pro

#267

Post by handsclean »

crazygringo wrote: post #223
handsclean wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people got played on the charger thing. It’s never free, it’s a mandatory bundle. But companies only put one line item on the receipt, never refer to the primary component separately but instead conflate its name and idea with the bundle, and when forced to de-bundle (usually) bump the primary component’s price to compensate, and people buy it: “the EU took away my charger!” Chargers don’t change quickly. If I l…

I mean, every laptop needs a charger. If you sell your old laptop when you buy a new one, you generally sell it with old charger. And different Apple laptops take chargers of different maximum watts (they're compatible but not optimal), so they're not all the same anyways. There's a reason they generally make sense to bundle. Especially with laptop chargers, which provide a whole lot more power than some random littl…

> If you sell your old laptop when you buy a new one, you generally sell it with old charger.

Sounds like a symptom of incompatibility. I’ve only ever included the charger when it was specific to the laptop.

> And different Apple laptops take chargers of different maximum watts (they're compatible but not optimal), so they're not all the same anyways.

Chargers automatically provide whatever power level is needed, up to their max, and charging power isn’t the steady tick upward we’re used to elsewhere. The MacBook Pro did get a faster charger a few years ago, relegating old ones to that “compatible but not optimal” state, but meanwhile MacBook Air chargers got slower, and most releases didn’t change the charger. Certainly there are sometimes benefits to buying a new charger, but it happens much less often than new device purchases, and even when there are benefits purchases should still be the customer’s choice.

> Sometimes letting the free market decide actually gives customers what they want and find most useful.

I agree, but “free market” doesn’t mean lawlessness, it means an actual market that’s actually free. Actual market: companies compete on economics, not e.g. violence or leverage over consumers. Actually free: consumers freely choose between available options. Bundling is a very classic example of an attempt to circumvent free market economics, using the greater importance of one choice to dictate a second choice.

Re: M5 MacBook Pro

#268

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

radley wrote: post #196
0xfaded wrote: post #52

To any Linux users, I recently bought a fully loaded M4 MacBook pro to replace my aging Lenovo and strongly regret it. I thought I would use it for playing with LLMs, but local dev on a Mac is not fun and I still don't have it fully set up. I'll probably replace it with a framework at some point in the near future. Edit: okay, that garnered more attention than I expected, I guess I owe a qualification. 1. Everything…

Is there a HN bingo card? Because we always get a top comment for Linux user who tries Mac and decides they prefer Linux.

I kinda agree with the OP, but then I was a Linux user for well over a decade. I do think that C/C++ libraries are much, much more of a pain on Mac as soon as you go off the beaten path (compiling GDAL was not pleasant, whereas it would be a breeze on Linux).

Some of this is probably brew not being as useful as apt, and some more of it is probably me not being as familiar with the Mac stuff, but it's definitely something I noticed when I switched.

The overall (graphical) UI is much fluider and more convenient than Linux though.

Re: M5 MacBook Pro

#269

Post by leakycap »

paradox460 wrote: post #255
leakycap wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing carriers/networks can't handle a fleet of MacBooks-with-cellular yet. The data workload would be sustained and intense with macOS not having the type of system-level cellular framework/data control as iPad and iOS (I have used the low data mode on macOS, it helps but only handles a small part of the problem). I have bought cracked-screen iPhones since Personal Hotspot allowed wired connections back in th…

Osx has, for a little while now, had a "metered" flag for networks. Not sure which apps, if any, respect it, but it's there

> (I have used the low data mode on macOS, it helps but only handles a small part of the problem)

Yes, I mentioned that in the post you responded to.

> Not sure which apps, if any, respect it, but it's there

It reduces data consumption for me about 1/5. Not nothing, but the Mac can easily consume hundreds of GB of data a week doing "normal" activities. YouTube on a MacBook is many times more data than the equivalent on a phone screen.

Re: M5 MacBook Pro

#270

Post by nextos »

thewebguyd wrote: post #198
0xfaded wrote: post #52

To any Linux users, I recently bought a fully loaded M4 MacBook pro to replace my aging Lenovo and strongly regret it. I thought I would use it for playing with LLMs, but local dev on a Mac is not fun and I still don't have it fully set up. I'll probably replace it with a framework at some point in the near future. Edit: okay, that garnered more attention than I expected, I guess I owe a qualification. 1. Everything…

> The window manager. I'm not a fan of all the animations and needing to gester between screens (and yes, I've been down the hotkeys rabbit hole). To install a 3rd party window manager, you need to disable some security setting because appearantly they work by injecting into the display manager and calling private APIs. Specifically for this, there's Aerospace ( https://github.com/nikitabobko/AeroSpace ) which does n…

Mac laptop hardware is objectively better, but I am on the same camp as the parent post. For most development workflows, Linux is my favorite option. In particular, I think NixOS and the convenience of x86_64 is usually worth the energy efficiency deficit with Apple M.

It will be interesting to see how this evolves as local LLMs become mainstream and support for local hardware matures. Perhaps, the energy efficiency of the Apple Neural Engine will widen the moat, or perhaps NPUs like those in Ryzen chips will close the gap.

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