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Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

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Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#261

Post by GenerocUsername »

codedokode wrote: post #257
visarga wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What button? Again with the vending machine idea. No, it's language prompting, language has unbounded semantic space. It's not one choice out of 20, it's one choice out of countless possibilities. I give my idea to the model, the model gives me new ideas, I iterate. After enough rounds I get some place where I would never have gotten on my own, or the model gotten there without me. I am not the sole creator, neither…

> language has unbounded semantic space So if I have a melody in my head, how do I make AI render it using language? Even simpler, if I can beatbox a beat (like "pts-ts-ks-ts"), how do I describe it using language? I don't feel like I can make anything useful by prompting.

You record yourself whistling it and out it in as an input.

I've been recording myself on guitar and using suno to turn it into professional quality recordings with full backing band.

And I'm not trying to sell it, I just like hearing the ideas in my head turned into fully fleshed music of higher quality than I could produce with 100x more time to invest into it

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#262

Post by moritzwarhier »

Veedrac wrote: post #121
moritzwarhier wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure your creation will be more interesting than any AI-generated "art". Suno can create catchy songs and succeed in matching genre expectations / cliches. I've been in phases where I had output I generated with it playing in my head constantly (due to repeated listening). The output was catchy. Then tried to generate interesting music, failed spectacularly. And I, among other stuff, enjoy a lot of music t…

This argument always seemed weird to me because it's obviously the case that ‘intent and creativity’ is at best a slim minority of consumer preference. If I want a simple dubstep line with random romantic words meaninglessly peppered in it, or the same 4 chord pop song as every other pop song, or you know, anything popular, that's easy. If I want something that's saying something interesting in the topics I find inte…

I was alive to hear the evolution of "dubstep" before it became a cliche (the wobble stuff). AI couldn't invent a new sound.

The way you describe music, sure, there will be an AI that is able to provide you with a continuous stream of audiotory stimuli, like the Penfield Mood Organ from "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?".

That's just not what makes art or music interesting to me, and why I also don't listen to auto-curated "mood" playlists on Spotify.

> Penfield mood organ - Humans use the mood organ to dial specific emotions so they can experience emotions without actually possessing them. In the beginning of the novel, Rick implores his wife to use her dialing console to prevent a fight. He wants her to thoughtlessly dial emotions like "the desire to watch TV" or "awareness of the manifold possibilities open to [her] in the future" (Dick, 6). When emotions can be easily avoided with the mood organ, humans no longer require personal relationships to overcome feelings of isolation or loneliness.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#263

Post by j4coh »

visarga wrote: post #216
j4coh wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn’t even have to be art. If someone told me they were a chef and cooked some food but in reality had ordered it I’d think they were a bit of a moron for equating these things or thinking that by giving someone money or a request for something they were a creator, not a consumer. It may be nice for society that ordering food is possible, but it doesn’t make one a chef to have done so.

Assuming that 1. food is free and instant to get, and 2. there are infinite possibilities for food - then yes, if you ordered such a food from an infinite catalog you would get the credit. But if you ordered 100 dishes iterating between designing your order, tasting, refining your order, and so on - maybe you even discover something new that nobody has realized before. The gen-AI process is a loop, not a prompt->outp…

Am I a chef then because I tell my private chefs what to make on an ongoing basis?

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#264

Post by codedokode »

I don't want traditional DAWs replaced with AI generator. What I want is using AI to improve/speedup existing processes, for example:

- extracting melody/instrument from a clip to be able to edit the notes and render it back with the same instrument

- extracting and reordering stems in a drum clip

- fixing timing and cleaning noise from sloppily played guitar melody

- generating high-quality multi-mic instrument samples for free

- AI checking the melody and pointing out which notes are wrong or boring and how it can be fixed. I want to write the notes myself but help would be very useful.

- AI helping to build harmony (pick chords for the melody for example)

This would help a lot, but current models that generate a song without any controls, are not what I want.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#265

Post by j4coh »

bobxmax wrote: post #196
j4coh wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s really not. It’s like having interdimensional Spotify where you can describe any song and they will pull it up from whatever dimension made it and play it for you. It may empower you as a consumer but it does not make you a creator.

And so sampling, dj'ing, these aren't skills? This isn't music?

I was a trance and dnb DJ, I definitely never claimed I was writing the songs I played and I think it would have been dishonest to do so.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#266

Post by moritzwarhier »

Veedrac wrote: post #121
moritzwarhier wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure your creation will be more interesting than any AI-generated "art". Suno can create catchy songs and succeed in matching genre expectations / cliches. I've been in phases where I had output I generated with it playing in my head constantly (due to repeated listening). The output was catchy. Then tried to generate interesting music, failed spectacularly. And I, among other stuff, enjoy a lot of music t…

This argument always seemed weird to me because it's obviously the case that ‘intent and creativity’ is at best a slim minority of consumer preference. If I want a simple dubstep line with random romantic words meaninglessly peppered in it, or the same 4 chord pop song as every other pop song, or you know, anything popular, that's easy. If I want something that's saying something interesting in the topics I find inte…

I was alive to hear the evolution of "dubstep" before it became a cliche (the wobble stuff). AI couldn't invent a new sound.

The way you describe music, sure, there will be an AI that is able to provide you with a continuous stream of audiotory stimuli, like the Penfield Mood Organ from "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?".

That's just not what makes art or music interesting to me, and why I also don't listen to auto-curated "mood" playlists on Spotify.

> Penfield mood organ - Humans use the mood organ to dial specific emotions so they can experience emotions without actually possessing them. In the beginning of the novel, Rick implores his wife to use her dialing console to prevent a fight. He wants her to thoughtlessly dial emotions like "the desire to watch TV" or "awareness of the manifold possibilities open to [her] in the future" (Dick, 6). When emotions can be easily avoided with the mood organ, humans no longer require personal relationships to overcome feelings of isolation or loneliness.

That being said, there is a spectrum, sure.

I am interested in generative music.

I do have scenarios where I listen to music and want it to blend into the background (e.g. soma FM).

But even then I love the short moment when a song comes up and I want to note it because it's distinct.

I am not interested in being robbed of that.

Also: why? Why, why, why?

Music is not just a recording packaged as a product. It is a thing humans do. And I say that as a person that enjoys mainly electronic music!

There are many talented humans, there is absolutely zero need for AI muzak, other than decreasing the price.

Musicians leveraging generative AI for creative purposes might become a thing and I am fine with that in principle, but the thought is a joke to me, as of now.

Creating audio from an idea is not the same as letting a machine create an interpolation of stolen ideas to match a prompt.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#267

Post by codedokode »

GenerocUsername wrote: post #261
codedokode wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> language has unbounded semantic space So if I have a melody in my head, how do I make AI render it using language? Even simpler, if I can beatbox a beat (like "pts-ts-ks-ts"), how do I describe it using language? I don't feel like I can make anything useful by prompting.

You record yourself whistling it and out it in as an input. I've been recording myself on guitar and using suno to turn it into professional quality recordings with full backing band. And I'm not trying to sell it, I just like hearing the ideas in my head turned into fully fleshed music of higher quality than I could produce with 100x more time to invest into it

This is more closer to actually creating rather than generating music. However this cannot be done with a text prompt, which the comment above claimed, is expressive enough.

Actually having an "autotune" AI that turns out-of-key poor singing into a beautiful melody while keeping the voice timbre, would be not bad.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#268

Post by codedokode »

schwartzworld wrote: post #186
songeater wrote: post #107

Tools like Suno are fundamentally enabling. I'm about 40 years old and never "had the music" - not for lack of trying (music lessons at a young age)... but could never carry a tune or keep rhythm. I suppose its what being dyslexic feels like. If I were educated in a culture where music was fundamentally as important as reading or math, I suppose would have spent enough hours on it to eventually be passable... but I g…

> learning suno is no different than learning guitar It most definitely is different and you’ve proven it with your own post. Guitar takes a long time to get to a place where you can produce the sounds you hear in your head. Suno gives you instant gratification. Look, if it gives you pleasure to make Suno music then you should do it, but if you think having an ai steal a melody and add it to your songs counts is the…

> Guitar takes a long time to get to a place where you can produce the sounds you hear in your head. Suno gives you instant gratification.

Wrong. It takes extremely long before you can make the sounds in your head fit into the scale and recognize them, however with Suno it is impossible.

I would compare Suno to a musician-for-hire. You describe what you want, some time later he sends you the recording, you write clarifications, and get second revision, and so on. Suno is the same musician, except much faster, cheaper and with poor vocal skills. Everything you can do with Suno today, you could make before, albeit at much higher price.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#269

Post by codedokode »

lz400 wrote: post #113
tummler wrote: post #19

Suno is moving toward becoming a browser-based DAW that happens to use AI. There are already more capable and established DAWs, and I see no reason they can't implement AI into their workflows-- in a more precise manner, where it's actually useful, instead of wholesale as a gimmick. Many are already doing this. So I don't understand where Suno is going with any of this. It either needs to be: 1. So easy anyone can pr…

> And listeners/consumers can tell the difference between art created with intent and soul, and a pale imitation of that. Strong disagree there. I think that's true of a very small % of consumers nowadays. I mean, total honesty, I think that Suno is not worse than a large fraction of the commercial pop made by humans (maybe) that tops the charts regularly. It's already extremely formula based artificial music made by…

The difference between human and computer music would be obvious at a live concert for anyone.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#270

Post by codedokode »

Nursie wrote: post #139
creata wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And look at the vocaloid stuff too. What about the vocaloid stuff?

It’s soulless by definition, designed by committee and sung by a machine. Entirely manufactured. But people like it. It’s a counterpoint to the above argument that listeners will be dismissive of AI-produced music because it is a pale imitation of art created with intent and soul. On the contrary, such music thrives and is very popular already.

It might be "soulless" compared to real vocal, but vocaloid music is still created and played on keyboard by a human.
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