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We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

thenexus.media

261–270 of 727 posts

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#261
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm against extrajudicial deportations to El Salvador, but those people are not being deported for their political opinions. As for trans/LGBTQ+ genocide, it does not exist in the West.

[flagged]

This seems identical to saying that convincing someone with anorexia that they aren't overweight is "social death", and "social death" is (somehow) genocide.

I.e. it's nonsense.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#262
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with what has been done in the Mahmoud Khalil matter. But it is a far distance between that on the one hand and what happens in places like Russia on the other. I'm not trying to minimize the dangers of Trump. My point is that there is a huge difference in the level of authoritarianism between today's US and what I consider to be actual authoritarian countries. Today's US is one of the freest countries on…

The distance is closing, it's already closer than many Americans would have considered possible. How close does it need to get before we should be concerned?

I'm already somewhat concerned. I've been concerned since long before Trump. And Trump has added some new concerns. For example, with that strike against the Venezualan boat today. But that doesn't mean that I believe that we're anywhere actually close to it. Those are two separate questions.

People really should try to understand that if someone says "I think that the US is vastly freer than Russia", it does not mean "I think that there is no reason for concern" or "I think that the US is going in a good direction".

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#263
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with what has been done in the Mahmoud Khalil matter. But it is a far distance between that on the one hand and what happens in places like Russia on the other. I'm not trying to minimize the dangers of Trump. My point is that there is a huge difference in the level of authoritarianism between today's US and what I consider to be actual authoritarian countries. Today's US is one of the freest countries on…

The distance is closing, it's already closer than many Americans would have considered possible. How close does it need to get before we should be concerned?

Is it really worse than McCarthyism era? I feel that time was much worse than currently.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#264

I moved from Canada to California for a new job with a mid six figure salary. I had a very difficult time finding a place to rent as I had no credit score. Only places that were available without credit score was a room to share. That was not an option with a cat, wife and kids. Finally, I found a place that was willing to accept the entire year's rent up front. Moving such a large amount of money from Canada to US h…

This exact same story pretty much happened to me when I moved to Canada about 15 years ago. I wasn't able to get a credit card for years, and couldn't rent an apartment without a guarantor, despite the fact that I was full-time employed in the tech industry, had zero debt, plenty of savings etc.

What I took from the experience (especially after going through various iterations of it in several other countries) is that most communities are biased against migrants/newcomers. Egalitarianism would be nice, but in practice nepotism and chauvinism are encoded in policy.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean I live in the US and people are getting persecuted right now for being a minority, being politically active, or being in legal trouble. So not seeing a huge difference between liberal democracies and authoritarians.

Perhaps the US is no longer a liberal democracy?

Was US ever a liberal democracy? People had much less liberties in the 1950s than today, with people getting arrested for their political views instead of just deported. not to mention segregation and such.

They even put lawyers defending these politicians in prison for defending them... The constitution doesn't seem to matter since the government apparently don't have to care about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#266
This article reminds me of those silly "Capitalism is the real super intelligent AI" or "is a burrito a sandwich" arguments from a few years ago. Saying a "system with the explicit goal of the government judging legal behavior to try and change it and punish you if you don't" is the same thing as "private entities deciding on how or even if they want to interact with you" is just stretching the definition too far to be taken seriously. By that argument me deciding I don't want to read more by this author is a social credit system.

>Your Uber rating doesn't affect your mortgage rate, and your LinkedIn engagement doesn't determine your insurance premiums. But the infrastructure is being built to connect these systems. We're building the technical and cultural foundations that could eventually create comprehensive social credit systems.

She doesn't provide any citation for this

> Corporate platforms increasingly share reputation data. Financial services integrate social media analysis into lending decisions

Again she doesn't provide any citation for this, but more importantly she doesn't explain why she thinks it's wrong. Someone who posts "Feeling lucky so headed to the craps table" probably shouldn't be lent to, if only for their sake

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#267
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The following you everywhere is a major problem with these systems imo, mostly because it removed the equivalent of bankruptcy for your reputation. If you had to move across the country to leave your bad name behind, you used to be able to. And just like bankruptcy you’d start with nothing so it wasn’t exactly easy but it was at least an option. Now what recourse do people have?

Also people turning up in a town one day with no one to vouch for them were assumed to be up to no good as it could be assumed that you'd do just that if you were escaping your previous reputation. You could start with less than nothing by default, and may never shake it, and that's before race or religion. > "If you weren’t born and raised here, you’re an outsider even though you’ve lived here for thirty-five years.…

In small town New England, to this day, the litmus test is whether you graduated from the local high school, meaning you're probably related to other people in town. If you moved here at the age of 19 you're SOL.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#268
China is controlled by the government. The US is controlled by banks.

The reality is, there's always an entity that controls a society. If not culture or religion, it will be the government or shadow government, or corporations and banks.

Never forget that the main reason WFH was attacked in such a coordinated effort within a short period of time was because it threatened banks' business interests and model. Who's going to pay banks if landlords (commercial and residential) can't milk renters' money? It's a food chain and on top of it are the banks, and at the bottom are you, the average worker living paycheck to paycheck. WFH disrupted that and shifted the power to you. You don't have to rent/own downtown, so you (landlord) don't have to pay hefty property taxes. As a result, the government is losing, banks are losing, landlords will finally have to find real jobs instead of leeching off others, and all of that was a nightmare to them, and thus the push for hybrid or whatever under the fake claims it promotes cooperation and teamwork.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#269

I moved from Canada to California for a new job with a mid six figure salary. I had a very difficult time finding a place to rent as I had no credit score. Only places that were available without credit score was a room to share. That was not an option with a cat, wife and kids. Finally, I found a place that was willing to accept the entire year's rent up front. Moving such a large amount of money from Canada to US h…

Your credit score IS maintained by companies! Their whole business is maintaining American credit scores. I really have no idea what their business model is.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your case, you're positing that if you couldn't afford it anyways, it's "social credit" if private lenders don't give you help because you have a history of not paying loans back. Please read it again. It was hypothesized that you could have a hard time getting a college loan if your parents had bad credit. Now, you could construct an argument for why that policy makes sense for credit issuers, such as 'statistics…

>But the underlying objection was that you shouldn't need to go into debt to get access to higher education in the first place, ie college should not be insanely expensive and you should be able to manage the academic and financial demands with a part time job. But we're conflating social credit with credit scores are we? A highly contentious normative claim has little to do with OP's argument and is obviously not a…

> But we're conflating social credit with credit scores are we?

Yes, we are. "Your credit score is social credit." is the first sentence in the original post.

If you want to reject the entire premise of this article/blog post, thats your prerogative, but it's really not that different.

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