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From M1 MacBook to Arch Linux: A month-long experiment that became permanenent

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Re: From M1 MacBook to Arch Linux: A month-long experiment that became permanenent

#261

Post by sandreas »

throwmeaway222 wrote: post #56

I don't know if anyone else agrees, but for some reason no one can replicate the smoothness of the Apple trackpad. And now with that PLUS the heatless apple silicon - I don't think I could go to another OS and the x86 hardware world. I would just feel like I'm in clunky-land. Now don't get me wrong, I like a lot about Linux desktops, but Mac gets a lot of things right. I don't want to take anything away from people m…

I did a lot of research regarding the trackpad situation on modern Linux and there are several reasons the macOS experience feels better for most people.

The most important one is indeed SOFTWARE/DRIVER implementation. Using a hackintosh, the feeling is not the same as a MacBook, but close (depending on which Hardware is used). Furthermore there is ONE UI framework (AppKit?!) which makes implementing things like inertial scolling and rubberbanding pretty easy in one Place. On Linux you have multiple App Frameworks (GTK, QT, ...), which is significantly harder to coordinate and the backwards compatible X11 stuff. Did you know that libinput has only one permanent maintainer (Peter Hutterer)?

Of course the amount of Hardware to support is significantly lower on apples side, which makes optimization easier.

Still, all in all I think the Linux touchpad experience is very close to macOS on my Lenovo T480s with a glass touchpad from a yoga 7 in Arch / GNOME. The only thing that really is not as good and what bothers me From time to time is Palm detection.

Re: From M1 MacBook to Arch Linux: A month-long experiment that became permanenent

#262

Post by W3zzy »

cycomanic wrote: post #76

> But the quality of MacBooks is just another level. I had 3 or 4 so far since 2010, and each of them held at least 5 years. Crazy good. When I read things like this it really sounds like there is some reality distortion field in the mac world. How is that anywhere special? I'm running a thinkpad X1 as my 2 main laptops (it was my only work machine until 2 years ago) and I never felt the need to replace it. It gave m…

We run dell or HP laptops at work. After 3 years they get replaced. I usually buy my old work laptop to use it for personal use or to hand off to my family.

Tge first one I bought in that way is still working after 14 years. I converted it from Windows to Linux a few years ago and My mother uses it for browsing, banking and email. Personally I'm using a 7 years old HP.

Batteries get upgraded when necessary and first thin I do after buying is adding RAM.

I don't get how 5 years is a good lifespan on a Mac?

Re: From M1 MacBook to Arch Linux: A month-long experiment that became permanenent

#264

Post by baq »

pjerem wrote: post #80
cycomanic wrote: post #76

> But the quality of MacBooks is just another level. I had 3 or 4 so far since 2010, and each of them held at least 5 years. Crazy good. When I read things like this it really sounds like there is some reality distortion field in the mac world. How is that anywhere special? I'm running a thinkpad X1 as my 2 main laptops (it was my only work machine until 2 years ago) and I never felt the need to replace it. It gave m…

I’d say it’s barely 3 things : - The trackpad (but other manufacturers now have tolerable alternatives and anyway you can work without it) - The screen : at an equivalent price point (and even more), nothing comes close to Apple screens. The cheapest MacBook have a better screen than most high end PCs. - The audio : Apple truly did some sorcery to get such an awesome sound from machines that are flat as sheet. It’s s…

Also add a very important feature of ‘lid is closed - the computer is asleep and it wakes up when lid opens’. Both windows and Linux are simply broken in that regard.

What I need is Apple MacBook hardware with a 100% supported Linux OS. This combination simply doesn’t exist and there’s no amount of money to make it happen (yes I know about asahi.)

Re: From M1 MacBook to Arch Linux: A month-long experiment that became permanenent

#265

Post by kiliancs »

rwyinuse wrote: post #236
newsclues wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you used the cheap Dells and HP laptops that most people buy (not high end IBM machines)? They tend to be plastic junk. Yes thinkpads are good, but most laptops are trash disposable hardware

They are plastic junk, but even they are likely to remain technically functional for more than 5 years. It's mainly things like battery life, screen & keyboard quality that make those laptops annoying.

In my experience and my family's you are lucky if they last 3 years. If they last 5 years there's usually a subpar experience, e.g. they overheat significantly at 2 years. OTOH, we have a few macbooks > 10 years still working.

Re: From M1 MacBook to Arch Linux: A month-long experiment that became permanenent

#266

Post by footy »

cycomanic wrote: post #76

> But the quality of MacBooks is just another level. I had 3 or 4 so far since 2010, and each of them held at least 5 years. Crazy good. When I read things like this it really sounds like there is some reality distortion field in the mac world. How is that anywhere special? I'm running a thinkpad X1 as my 2 main laptops (it was my only work machine until 2 years ago) and I never felt the need to replace it. It gave m…

I had a MacBook once that lasted for 13 years, and that's what I used to assume people meant by "crazy good lifespan".

Once on this site I saw someone talking about how the lifespan is so good they only had to replace their MacBook every two years instead of every year, and it just made me realize "crazy good lifespan" is meaningless.

Re: From M1 MacBook to Arch Linux: A month-long experiment that became permanenent

#267

Post by baq »

W3zzy wrote: post #262
cycomanic wrote: post #76

> But the quality of MacBooks is just another level. I had 3 or 4 so far since 2010, and each of them held at least 5 years. Crazy good. When I read things like this it really sounds like there is some reality distortion field in the mac world. How is that anywhere special? I'm running a thinkpad X1 as my 2 main laptops (it was my only work machine until 2 years ago) and I never felt the need to replace it. It gave m…

We run dell or HP laptops at work. After 3 years they get replaced. I usually buy my old work laptop to use it for personal use or to hand off to my family. Tge first one I bought in that way is still working after 14 years. I converted it from Windows to Linux a few years ago and My mother uses it for browsing, banking and email. Personally I'm using a 7 years old HP. Batteries get upgraded when necessary and first…

The point is corporate wouldn’t need to replace the Apple MacBooks after 3 years. I’ve got an M1 air bought what feels forever ago and it’s still as fast as I need it to be. I’ve also been using hp laptops in my previous job and they couldn’t even wake from sleep when needed (but would wake in backpacks to the point IT explicitly forbade putting sleeping laptops in bags. Absurd.)

Re: From M1 MacBook to Arch Linux: A month-long experiment that became permanenent

#268

Post by jeroenhd »

throwmeaway222 wrote: post #56

I don't know if anyone else agrees, but for some reason no one can replicate the smoothness of the Apple trackpad. And now with that PLUS the heatless apple silicon - I don't think I could go to another OS and the x86 hardware world. I would just feel like I'm in clunky-land. Now don't get me wrong, I like a lot about Linux desktops, but Mac gets a lot of things right. I don't want to take anything away from people m…

The only meaningful difference between my ThinkPad's trackpad and the one in my work Mac is that the Mac has a bigger one. I don't really get why some people seem to be under the impression that Windows laptops come with trackpads from the twenty years ago.

The CPU architecture is great and I hope Qualcomm will soon be able to replicate it in normal laptops. I don't think desktop users care about that as much, though, and macOS has just as many infuriating particularities as any desktop Linux OS. It just comes with better drivers.

Re: From M1 MacBook to Arch Linux: A month-long experiment that became permanenent

#269

Post by amelius »

gbalduzzi wrote: post #81
cycomanic wrote: post #76

> But the quality of MacBooks is just another level. I had 3 or 4 so far since 2010, and each of them held at least 5 years. Crazy good. When I read things like this it really sounds like there is some reality distortion field in the mac world. How is that anywhere special? I'm running a thinkpad X1 as my 2 main laptops (it was my only work machine until 2 years ago) and I never felt the need to replace it. It gave m…

I believe there is a similar situation in the mobile space with iphones, at least here is Europe where they are not ubiquitous. Most people use cheaper android phones, that are slower and with a much shorted timespan. then they try a 1k€ iPhone and it is great and conclude they prefer the iPhone to Android: it is not an apple to apple comparison, you should compare it to a 1k€ android lol. Same things happens on lapt…

Yes, buy a flagship Samsung phone and you'll see how Apple is lightyears behind in design.

Re: From M1 MacBook to Arch Linux: A month-long experiment that became permanenent

#270

Post by amelius »

cycomanic wrote: post #76

> But the quality of MacBooks is just another level. I had 3 or 4 so far since 2010, and each of them held at least 5 years. Crazy good. When I read things like this it really sounds like there is some reality distortion field in the mac world. How is that anywhere special? I'm running a thinkpad X1 as my 2 main laptops (it was my only work machine until 2 years ago) and I never felt the need to replace it. It gave m…

> it really sounds like there is some reality distortion field in the mac world

It's probably because when everybody including your mom and dad has an Apple device, you really need something like the RDF to stay cool.

Anyway, I don't understand the evangelism around Apple. Evangelism is by definition toxic.

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