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Debian 13 “Trixie”

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Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#261

Post by kasabali »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #211
kasabali wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Debian's heavy patching of kernel in Debian stable Needs citation. Debian stable uses upstream LTS kernels and I'm not aware of any heavy patching they do on top of that. Upstream -stable trees are very relaxed in patches they accept and unfortunately they don't get serious testing before being released either (you can see there's a new release in every -stable tree like every week), so that's probably what you've…

AFAICT, the patches are here: https://salsa.debian.org/kernel-team/linux/-/tree/debian/lat... Whether that qualifies as "heavy" or not is of course a matter of opinion, but it's not nothing.

IMO, considering the size and scale of the kernel (millions of lines of code, variety of architectures supported, # of subsystems and ridiculous amount of device drivers ), these patches might as well be counted as nothing. I'd say they're basically shipping a pristine kernel :D

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#262

Post by scbrg »

binwiederhier wrote: post #30

Thank you to all the Debian volunteers that make Debian and all its derivatives possible. It's remarkable how many people and businesses have been enabled by your work. Thank you! On a personal note, Trixie is very exciting for me because my side project, ntfy [1], was packaged [2] and is now included in Trixie. I only learned about the fact that it was included very late in cycle when the package maintainer asked fo…

ntfy is a very useful tool. Thank you very much for making it and also for maintaining the ntfy.sh service for those of us too lazy to self host.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#263

Post by zozbot234 »

WD-42 wrote: post #183
raggi wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LTS has had major breaking changes in various areas in recent times too, virtio was badly broken at one point this year, as was a commonly used netlink interface. Hat tip to the Arch kernel contributors who helped track this down and chase upstream, as we had mutually affected users. The debian and ubuntu bug trackers were a wasteland of silence and user contributions throughout the situation, and frustratingly conti…

One of the unsung praises of Arch is that it's turned thousands of users into testers. Before someone says "that shouldn't be the user's responsibility" I'm going to say I'm not so sure. We're all in this together. I'd rather deal with a bug or two on my desktop at home if it means it gets fixed before appearing in a distro that gets used for servers at work and causes issues there where the consequences are much hig…

> One of the unsung praises of Arch is that it's turned thousands of users into testers.

You can do that well enough with Debian's "testing" and "unstable" release channels. Aside from the few months leading up to a new "stable" release, which usually isn't a big deal (and fixing regressions in "stable" should then be a higher priority anyway). Just don't install it on systems that you actually depend on to keep working. But running it on your desktop at home that you only use to play and experiment with is just fine.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#264

Post by exe34 »

ACS_Solver wrote: post #25

Writing this from my Debian system, it's a great distro that has been excellent to me as a daily driver. I switched to Debian 6 after Ubuntu went way downhill and haven't had cause to regret it. I like Debian's measured pragmatism with ideology, how it's a distro of free software by default but it also makes it easy to install non-free software or firmware blobs. I like Debian's package guidelines, I like dpkg, I lik…

I think this is all true, but the "being my fault" part has gotten better for me with nixos. Broke it? just reboot into the previous version and get configuration.nix back from git. I had to reinstall exactly once in 2016 shortly after the first install, but I don't know what I did wrong. the third time I installed nixos was last week when I bought a new computer that came with Windows.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#265

Post by throwaway81523 »

ACS_Solver wrote: post #25

Writing this from my Debian system, it's a great distro that has been excellent to me as a daily driver. I switched to Debian 6 after Ubuntu went way downhill and haven't had cause to regret it. I like Debian's measured pragmatism with ideology, how it's a distro of free software by default but it also makes it easy to install non-free software or firmware blobs. I like Debian's package guidelines, I like dpkg, I lik…

You weren't around for when they broke the OpenSSL random number generator for no good reason. That was back in 2008 and it created vulnerabilities that persist to this day. https://16years.secvuln.info/

I still use Debian but it's hard to forget stuff like that even after all these years.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#266

Post by pabs3 »

b112 wrote: post #256
pabs3 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freexian is for-profit, and all the LTS/ELTS contributors are Debian maintainers, and LTS is part of Debian, while ELTS is publicly available too, but in an external archive. https://wiki.debian.org/LTS https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Team https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Extended https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Funding

Ah, they advertised non-profit at one point, but I see that's changed. That may have been "we seek no profit" not "non-profit entity". Thanks for the info on this point. Back to LTS: Debian LTS is not handled by the Debian Security and Release teams, but by a separate group of volunteers and companies interested in making it a success. To the point, Freexian is 100% not Debian, not "part" of Debian, it merely uses De…

The LTS/Freexian people are all Debian members/contributors, so I would not say "Freexian is 100% not Debian" is correct. Basically, some Debian folks got together and started a company to get funding to do an LTS, and also offer other paid services.

At least for bullseye, the LTS team supposedly support all packages, except for games and a few other packages. Its trivial to find out which packages aren't supported too, just run a command, no need to email anyone.

https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Bullseye https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Using#Check_for_unsupported_pack... https://salsa.debian.org/debian/debian-security-support/-/bl...

Agreed on the rest, although do note LTS contributors are paid, the security team probably aren't (although some are).

I think in practice, when contrib/non-free stuff has security updates from upstreams, Debian does get updates in stable/LTS. For example the Intel microcode, or WiFi firmware.

I too feel like Debian having LTS is a waste of time, people should be able to upgrade to the next stable within the one year of regular security support for oldstable.

BTW, Ubuntu security support has a similar issue; main is supported, universe is not.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#267

Post by rs_rs_rs_rs_rs »

anthk wrote: post #246

I used to like Debian when configuring ALSA/OSS, XFree86 and such was a source of nightmares. Thus, debconf as a middle layer mechanism to handle several distinct architectures, setups and hardware was a neccesity. Ditto with Yast2 on SuSE. By 2004-2005... not much. Even a bare Slackware with KDE and KDEi (and even XFCE) can do tons of work by itself by just adding an user and accepting the default group belonging ar…

dpkg/apt in Debian fells slower even compared with dpkg/apt in Ubuntu, not sure why that's the case

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#268

Post by pabs3 »

NewJazz wrote: post #101
abhinavk wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buster is supported until June 2028.

Thanks, I assume some of that is sort of extended, asterisked support though?

Games are unsupported, and a bunch of other packages:

https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Bullseye https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/Using#Check_for_unsupported_pack...

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#269

Post by zozbot234 »

accrual wrote: post #117
esaym wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you confusing "386" with 32bit? 686 is the normal 32bit arch. 386 is something from the 1980's right?

When distros mention i386 support they often actually refer to i586 or i686, yes. True i386 support would mean compatible with the original Intel 386 processor from 1985. The 486 added a few additional instructions in 1989 but things really changed with the Pentium in 1993 - that gave us i586 which is the bare minimum for most modern software today. Much software can still run on regular Pentiums today if compiled fo…

The Linux kernel also requires at least i486 now. AIUI that decision had to do with smoothing out multicore/SMP support - which is a bit silly because no real 80386 systems in common use are even SMP, let alone multicore. But anyway.

Re: Debian 13 “Trixie”

#270

Post by pabs3 »

wltr wrote: post #251
Pet_Ant wrote: post #62

It can be a little hard to navigate to so the .torrent links for x86-64 are Minimal: https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/bt-cd/deb... Full: https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/bt-dvd/de...

It baffles me I keep searching for these files every time I want to download Debian. And it’s been like that for over a decade at least.

They are linked from the "Other downloads" page linked from the front page.
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