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Project Hyperion: Interstellar ship design competition

projecthyperion.org

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Re: Project Hyperion: Interstellar ship design competition

#261

Post by rurban »

munificent wrote: post #100
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we are never leaving this solar system unless we discover some new physics to get around our speed limitations The winning proposal coasts at 0.01c. Propulsion systems--not the speed of light--and thus engineering, not phsyics, are the relevant limitors.

I am increasingly certain that culture is by far the biggest limiting factor when it comes to large-scale problem solving now and in the future. We couldn't even reliably get people to put a piece of fabric over their face to stop killing their own relatives. Even if we could build a generation ship, it would turn into an Event Horizon hellscape if we don't figure out better cultural, communication, and sociological…

That's why the community has to survive 80 years in the Antarctica without any contact, and only the surving generation may start the travel then. 2400 people on the ship, plus 20% who will not make it. Or maybe 90%?

Re: Project Hyperion: Interstellar ship design competition

#262

Post by m4rtink »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #130
yincrash wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a reason Star Trek teleporters have a "Heisenberg compensator", we cannot record both the position and momentum of a particle precisely. Scanning the "configuration of particles" to transmit to this theoretical printer is the first impossible roadblock. The human you scan can never be the same exact person printed.

To the extent what they’re suggesting isn’t bunk, it’s in being able to transmit genetic information and then print it to a womb. Then have a generation of psychopaths raised by a robot.

As with many topics, the Orions Arm Universe project has you covered - the Engenerator[0]!

Originally developed in-universe when a bunch of immortal cyborgs got bored on a colonization ship & decided to instruct a precursor probe to print a machine that prints a machine that will print their bodies on site. :)

The engenerator technology is completely safe[1] and can't be misused in any way.

[0] https://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/486fee4017475

[1] https://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/461009349a06e

Re: Project Hyperion: Interstellar ship design competition

#263

Post by rurban »

icetank wrote: post #246
varjag wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Europeans" is kinda broad brush. Norwegians around me had little trouble following the safety instructions. Still not sold though that the cohesion in an small, resource constrained, artificial community can hold over a few generations. Huge risks of it degrading into some cult/dictatorship.

I don't see why smaller societies should not be able to thrive. My grandparents said once that back in the day you could identify what rural village someone was from by their accent. Meaning populations inside of villages changed very little. And most of these villages did just fine with populations as low as 200.

Maybe that's why they seperate the ship into 5 indendent areas, each 480 people. So that at least one culture will survive for 400 years.

Re: Project Hyperion: Interstellar ship design competition

#264

Post by NoGravitas »

andrewla wrote: post #256

On this thread people are pointing out many potential problems with all of these solutions. I think all have an element of validity but in the end a much bigger problem is the complete unknowns. The good news is that there is a system for measuring the effectiveness of the potential solutions. That system is called "reality". If humanity builds a single "ark" then it is very likely to fail. The trick is that we need…

The generation ship in KSR's "Aurora" failed due to unknown unknowns. I'd very much hate to have lived on it as it did, and I would be unwilling to condemn tens or hundreds of thousands of people to the same fate as an experiment.

Re: Project Hyperion: Interstellar ship design competition

#265

Post by Someone »

scythe wrote: post #101
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we are never leaving this solar system unless we discover some new physics to get around our speed limitations The winning proposal coasts at 0.01c. Propulsion systems--not the speed of light--and thus engineering, not phsyics, are the relevant limitors.

Relativity isn't the problem. The problem is that hitting a grain of sand at 0.1 c delivers the energy of several tonnes of TNT. My guess is that we will colonize the asteroid belt (Palladium! So much palladium!) and send lots of interstellar probes long before we try to send humans outside the solar system. Right now we're like a village that lives by a river and has never reached the mouth talking about sailing acr…

> Right now we're like a village that lives by a river and has never reached the mouth talking about sailing across the ocean

And that’s an enormous understatement. Let’s say the villagers have travelled a meager 10 km of the river. Then, the ocean is, ballpark, at most 1,000 times as wide as the distance to the sea.

A thousand times the distance between earth and moon (the farthest humans have travelled) gets you, ballpark, to mars.

A lightyear is ~50,000 times the distance to mars or 50,000,000 times as far as humans have travelled. And yet, in interstellar travel, a lightyear gets you nowhere.

Re: Project Hyperion: Interstellar ship design competition

#266

Post by fermuch »

jimmySixDOF wrote: post #207

I spent some time contemplating the analog of a shower or a bath and generally washing oneself and how that would look in a zero gravity based environment. My favorite idea is "water" injected into a contained environment to produce a particular pressure and or flow setting with a scuba type hose for breathing. All liquid is evacuated through the base and an air jet helps produce a drying effect plus clear out the ca…

Drowning in my own shower is a new kind of fear you've just unlocked on me

Re: Project Hyperion: Interstellar ship design competition

#267

Post by Tuna-Fish »

vl wrote: post #99
Tuna-Fish wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a problem that's easy to fix with a fridge and a bunch of embryos. They take practically no space.

So far the only known technology to bring embryos to life is through alive female host, so you still need healthy, and on top of that, willing population to use embryos.

... Yes?

The question specifically was:

> Is this enough for a healthy breeding population?

Through the use of technology, this limit can be completely sidestepped.

Re: Project Hyperion: Interstellar ship design competition

#268

Post by m4rtink »

XorNot wrote: post #41
jiggawatts wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect it’ll be easier to adapt the human species to be compatible with long-duration travel than to design spaceships to accommodate humans as-is.

The whole equation changes pretty drastically if we had a practical hibernation or biological stasis technology (I hate saying cryosleep, though in practice we know freezing things pauses them - see the 31 year old embryo baby recently). Like do you really care how long it takes to get somewhere if it subjectively happens in the blink of an eye? Would you even necessarily be likely to lose your own peer group if you…

This is how it works in the universe in the novel "Right of Return" by Janusz Zajdel - humanity has developed both safe hibernation as well as practical sub-light travel.

Many colonies, research stations and logistic hubs have been established with fast and dependable sub-light ships traversing between them.

On such a ship most of the crew is in hibernation at any one time, with just a couple people taking shifts from the hibernation to stand a watch during the flight.

Even with the ships reaching high sub-light speeds, the voyages take decades from outside perspective. But that might not be a problem! If you are one of the crew it might seem like a couple weeks as that's how long you flight crew shift took. If you are a passenger - it takes not time at all, you just go to hibernation & wake up at you destination!

So as long as you are a spacer or part of the wider community (e.q. space scientists who either study a wonder of space or are in transit to another one) this is fine - you will meet you friends again in a couple flight, in days or weeks of subjective time.

But if you befriends someone outside of the community or decide it was enough and settle down, you might never see them again.

Can really recommend the novel - has much more than this topic & quite a few other surprises. :)

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janusz_Zajdel

Re: Project Hyperion: Interstellar ship design competition

#270

Post by zdragnar »

FuriouslyAdrift wrote: post #252
virgildotcodes wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading through this in detail just cements that we are never leaving this solar system unless we discover some new physics to get around our speed limitations.

Speed isn't the problem... time is. Long term travel in space will destroy the body. Even with artificial gravity, cancer is nearly inevitable. I am ignoring the mental and emotional issues. Astronauts are extremely tough individuals. Now, if we can figure out some form of suspended animation, that fixes many problems for long range travel. I am much more convinced that our best way to leave our solar system will be…

> Now, if we can figure out some form of suspended animation

You'll still need someone awake to pilot the ship, otherwise you'll end up crash landed on a planet with Riddick running loose.

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