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Claude Code IDE integration for Emacs

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Re: Claude Code IDE integration for Emacs

#261

Post by simtel20 »

xmhsez wrote: post #217
throwaway4496 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think VIM is a niche? neovim + vim is used by over 38% of developers according StackExchange survey. That is more than 1 out of 3 developer, closer to 2 out of 5. I am not sure what is going on with here recently, maybe I have overgrown the place, or maybe everyday a little by little this place is getting filled with people who shouldn't be talking about CS.

I've been using vim for 10+ years. The only commands I know are for saving, quitting, enabling line numbers and syntax. I'm sure 90% of the people in your statistics are like me.

I have met people who said they use vim for programming and don't know how to use commands like `%s` and `G` to do those basic things. I don't think most people understand how to use vim, and for those cases it's about the same as using any other editor with a find, and arrow keys and delete. That is, about as much an editor as any textarea in a browser.

Re: Claude Code IDE integration for Emacs

#262

Post by b5n »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #90

I'm really glad that emacs is integrating modern tooling like LSP and tree-sitter, now Claude Code, but this approach is showing its age. I'm an emacs user of 20 years and honestly it's getting hard to configure everything these days. Claude Code before the IDE integration was actually the easiest thing to get working (since it just worked and then auto-revert-mode keeps my buffers in sync.) I'm on a new MacOS instal…

`use-package` has pretty much simplified everything:

  ;; c
  (use-package c-mode
    :ensure nil
    :defer t
    :mode "\\.cu?\\'"
    :config (setq c-default-style "gnu"
                  c-basic-offset 2)
    :hook ((c-mode . lsp)
           (c-mode . bmacs-ide)))

Re: Claude Code IDE integration for Emacs

#263

Post by massysett »

iLemming wrote: post #147
macintux wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just don't understand how the heck people would claim to be using Emacs for decades and still not knowing how to use the built-in profiler, edebug, apropos, macro expansion, advising system, indirect buffers, etc. The second half of your message is interesting. The first half is needlessly condescending.

> is needlessly condescending. While this may sound condesending, I believe it's understandable where the snub is coming from. VSCode doesn't need evangelism - it has become the de facto standard that every programmer is expected to know. Emacs occupies a different position entirely, and when curious newcomers encounter comments like "I used Emacs for 15 years before switching to...", they draw conclusions that may n…

I think this sort of comment turns people off from Emacs.

Most people don’t want to become experts in the editor. The editor is a means to an end: writing code, writing text, etc. This comment suggests to the new user: if I don’t program Emacs and publish packages in it, I’m not really using it, I’m just dabbling in it. But I don’t want to program the editor, so I shouldn’t use it at all.

I also don’t think the comments you criticize discourage users who would have discovered something transformative. Someone interested in programming their editor isn’t discouraged by someone who complains that Emacs is missing some modern prettiness, or that it’s not popular. There is plenty of Emacs evangelism that will hook those receptive to it.

I would like to balance out your comment by saying: it is just fine to, as you would say, dabble in Emacs. Don’t write advice. Don’t publish packages. Use customize. Don’t write a .emacs. Use the pull-down menus. It is still a delightfully powerful and well-documented editor even if you do none of the “expert” things. The developers have added so many of these features precisely so Emacs is easier to learn and use, and don’t let commenters who call you a dilettante convince you that if you’re not an Emacs Lisp maestro, you shouldn’t bother with Emacs.

Re: Claude Code IDE integration for Emacs

#265

Post by iLemming »

massysett wrote: post #263
iLemming wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is needlessly condescending. While this may sound condesending, I believe it's understandable where the snub is coming from. VSCode doesn't need evangelism - it has become the de facto standard that every programmer is expected to know. Emacs occupies a different position entirely, and when curious newcomers encounter comments like "I used Emacs for 15 years before switching to...", they draw conclusions that may n…

I think this sort of comment turns people off from Emacs. Most people don’t want to become experts in the editor. The editor is a means to an end: writing code, writing text, etc. This comment suggests to the new user: if I don’t program Emacs and publish packages in it, I’m not really using it, I’m just dabbling in it. But I don’t want to program the editor, so I shouldn’t use it at all. I also don’t think the comme…

To start, I disagree. If it takes a person to turn away from a tool just because some random human tool said something online, maybe they are not ready, on what level - emotional, spiritual, mental, moral - I'll leave them to decide.

I'm not saying "don't dabble in Emacs", dable all you want. Just use the damn tool - it's not that hard. To use the tool you just need to use the fucking tool with the intent to fucking use it. When someone says something like "I used Emacs for a decade as just a text editor" to me it sounds like: "I had this smartphone for the past two years and used it only to make calls. Not even video - I never bothered to figure out how that works..."

Emacs is a Lisp-based event-loop, with an embedded editor in it. This is of course a "simplification", but that will do. What do you do with a Lisp interpreter? You feed Lisp programs into it. Try writing some Lisp, it's not that hard. Swallow you hubris, swallow your pride - whichever you prefer and stop blaming parenthesis, bad weather, ThePrimeagen's mustache, sanctions or AI. With AI tools these days it may even feel like playing a video game.

You don't need to be "an expert" there are no "experts" in Emacs, there's no "career ladder," progression system, no ranks and shoulder straps, I don't know anyone who gets paid even just a little bit more for simply being good in Emacs - I certainly don't. Use it or not - just don't think of being "a newbie" or becoming "an expert" you either enjoy it or not, whichever it is - it's fine.

And by the way, I personally think I would've loved to witness my kind of evangelism back when I was still a tool, just much younger.

Re: Claude Code IDE integration for Emacs

#266

Post by wraptile »

throwaway4496 wrote: post #195
blahgeek wrote: post #9

Like LSP and tree-sitter, I think AI coding tools like Claude Code or Aider are very good news for niche editors like Emacs or Vim. Instead of struggling about implementing advanced IDE-like features, they can integrate with these tools relatively easily, and focus on other editing related features that set them apart. In fact, IMO it makes these editors more competitive because they are highly customizable and easie…

You think VIM is a niche? neovim + vim is used by over 38% of developers according StackExchange survey. That is more than 1 out of 3 developer, closer to 2 out of 5. I am not sure what is going on with here recently, maybe I have overgrown the place, or maybe everyday a little by little this place is getting filled with people who shouldn't be talking about CS.

Not only that but many new editors straigh up ship vim mode now like Zed, Obsidian etc. The main vscode neovim plugin¹ is very big too with over 500k unique installs. Clearly VIM is still widely popular and not going away anytime soon.

1 - https://github.com/vscode-neovim/vscode-neovim

Re: Claude Code IDE integration for Emacs

#267

Post by wraptile »

never_inline wrote: post #253
throwaway4496 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think VIM is a niche? neovim + vim is used by over 38% of developers according StackExchange survey. That is more than 1 out of 3 developer, closer to 2 out of 5. I am not sure what is going on with here recently, maybe I have overgrown the place, or maybe everyday a little by little this place is getting filled with people who shouldn't be talking about CS.

> people who shouldn't be talking about CS. Dijkstra said computer science is about computers as much as astronomy is about telescopes. I am not sure I agree with that, but it's definitely not about text editor choice. I have a .vimrc file with LSPs and whatnot. But it was from 3 years back. These days I use VSCode and IntelliJ (depending on language) because they do so many things out of the box. I would say the cho…

> I am not sure I agree with that, but it's definitely not about text editor choice.

It's definitely possible but I genuinely don't understand how people work for decades and still move their hand all the way to the arrow keys just go move the cursor to another word. Especially when the solution for this inefficiency is so accessible, existed for decades and is widely available in almost every tool. It's something that goes against the spirit of the medium which is all about automation.

Re: Claude Code IDE integration for Emacs

#268

Post by globular-toast »

b5n wrote: post #262
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #90

I'm really glad that emacs is integrating modern tooling like LSP and tree-sitter, now Claude Code, but this approach is showing its age. I'm an emacs user of 20 years and honestly it's getting hard to configure everything these days. Claude Code before the IDE integration was actually the easiest thing to get working (since it just worked and then auto-revert-mode keeps my buffers in sync.) I'm on a new MacOS instal…

`use-package` has pretty much simplified everything: ;; c (use-package c-mode :ensure nil :defer t :mode "\\.cu?\\'" :config (setq c-default-style "gnu" c-basic-offset 2) :hook ((c-mode . lsp) (c-mode . bmacs-ide)))

Use-package can even install third party packages automatically. Definitely worth learning. I converted my .emacs a few years ago. I'm using borg[0] to install stuff though because I like git.

[0] https://github.com/emacscollective/borg

Re: Claude Code IDE integration for Emacs

#269

Post by coldtea »

never_inline wrote: post #253
throwaway4496 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think VIM is a niche? neovim + vim is used by over 38% of developers according StackExchange survey. That is more than 1 out of 3 developer, closer to 2 out of 5. I am not sure what is going on with here recently, maybe I have overgrown the place, or maybe everyday a little by little this place is getting filled with people who shouldn't be talking about CS.

> people who shouldn't be talking about CS. Dijkstra said computer science is about computers as much as astronomy is about telescopes. I am not sure I agree with that, but it's definitely not about text editor choice. I have a .vimrc file with LSPs and whatnot. But it was from 3 years back. These days I use VSCode and IntelliJ (depending on language) because they do so many things out of the box. I would say the cho…

>Dijkstra said computer science is about computers as much as astronomy is about telescopes.

He said many stupid things when it was outside of his domain of mathematics and algorithms.

Re: Claude Code IDE integration for Emacs

#270

Post by macintux »

iLemming wrote: post #265
massysett wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this sort of comment turns people off from Emacs. Most people don’t want to become experts in the editor. The editor is a means to an end: writing code, writing text, etc. This comment suggests to the new user: if I don’t program Emacs and publish packages in it, I’m not really using it, I’m just dabbling in it. But I don’t want to program the editor, so I shouldn’t use it at all. I also don’t think the comme…

To start, I disagree. If it takes a person to turn away from a tool just because some random human tool said something online, maybe they are not ready, on what level - emotional, spiritual, mental, moral - I'll leave them to decide. I'm not saying "don't dabble in Emacs", dable all you want. Just use the damn tool - it's not that hard. To use the tool you just need to use the fucking tool with the intent to fucking…

Evangelism takes at least two forms:

- You're a sinner, a wrong-doer, and you must repent.

- This world you have not yet experienced is wonderful. Let me tell you about it.

Many, probably most, respond better to the second form.

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