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US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

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Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#261

Post by DiddlyWinks »

mathiaspoint wrote: post #228
cherryteastain wrote: post #32

Tariffs kinda make sense when you have a deficit in a widely available item. Big trade deficit with Bangladesh? Sure you can buy cheap textiles from Thailand or Vietnam or something. Unfortunately this approach does not work when you lack a viable domestic alternative and you're up against a monopoly. What will the US do if TSMC does not blink? Not buy TSMC made chips? Obviously that is impossible, so the logical con…

If there's one product we have domestic alternatives to it's semiconductors. We're a couple nodes behind TSMC. Using US only foundries or paying a premium for TSMC is not the end of the world.

Really? I was not under the impression that we had anything truly competitive. Could we make an iPhone, for example, using only U.S.-made chips?

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#262

Post by mrtksn »

cherryteastain wrote: post #32

Tariffs kinda make sense when you have a deficit in a widely available item. Big trade deficit with Bangladesh? Sure you can buy cheap textiles from Thailand or Vietnam or something. Unfortunately this approach does not work when you lack a viable domestic alternative and you're up against a monopoly. What will the US do if TSMC does not blink? Not buy TSMC made chips? Obviously that is impossible, so the logical con…

Yes it's a tax on consumption and when applied to everything the same way it's essentially a VAT. The admin keeps telling that EU will pay, India will pay but at best they can do is to weaken their currency so the goods become cheeper and it compensates for the tariffs US importers pay.

Arguably, US consumers are super consumers and maybe it will be better for everyone if Americans consume a bit less? I don't think that it should be necessarily bad for business, maybe it's time to switch to world building instead of consuming, maybe as so many people works so hard we as species should gradually move on to use our output for longer and enrich our lives with each new tool instead of consume more and more and keep working the same or more. Eastern Europeans are or used to be a bit likte that, have a slow paced life, have low GDP output, on paper economy and everything is bad but actually have a great life if you have a house with a garden and some stuff you bought 30 years ago and still functioning good enough.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#264

Post by Nevermark »

cyphertruck wrote: post #209

This is like an old fashioned Civilization game trade. Taiwan gets a significant ownership in a blue chip US company, TSMC should then take %51 control over intel, and turn it around. The US gets a stronger position with China such that china attacking Taiwan would be like bombing Apple or Google. The USA will go to war over that. Only the willingness to go to war, stops aggressors. War is terrible and economic compe…

> Taiwan gets a significant ownership in a blue chip US company

Blue chip, Intel is not:

> "[...] known for its stability, consistent earnings, sound financials, and long-standing reputation." [0]

[0] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bluechip.asp

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#265

Post by roenxi »

nosignono wrote: post #207
tw04 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>so the logical conclusion is that American consumers will end up paying the tariffs. That’s been the point all along… they are significantly raising taxes on the bottom 90% of Americans and most are too stupid to even understand it. Gotta pay for those tax cuts for the wealthy somehow.

It has nothing to do with stupidity. Stop painting people as idiots because they exist in one of the most information hostile environments in human history. This isn't some natural state that's unrecoverable. The people you describe have been given a highly addictive media environment tailor made to engender outrage and drive behavior. It shouldn't be a shock when most people cannot resist it. The first step to chang…

"Stupid" seems like a pretty fair way of describing that. If someone watches media that outrages them, misinforms them then causes them to make stupid decisions then the consequences are very much on their head. It is well know that the people peddling strong outrage are basically scumbags in it for the money and not the sort of people who should be listened too if you want to achieve long term success (which is mostly the domain of trusting optimists).

There are a lot of high quality media sources out there that don't promote outrage.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#267

Post by mathiaspoint »

DiddlyWinks wrote: post #261
mathiaspoint wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's one product we have domestic alternatives to it's semiconductors. We're a couple nodes behind TSMC. Using US only foundries or paying a premium for TSMC is not the end of the world.

Really? I was not under the impression that we had anything truly competitive. Could we make an iPhone, for example, using only U.S.-made chips?

We couldn't make an iPhone because apple would refuse to cooperate, not because of a technical limitation. We could make a similarly capable phone though.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#268

Post by croemer »

cherryteastain wrote: post #32

Tariffs kinda make sense when you have a deficit in a widely available item. Big trade deficit with Bangladesh? Sure you can buy cheap textiles from Thailand or Vietnam or something. Unfortunately this approach does not work when you lack a viable domestic alternative and you're up against a monopoly. What will the US do if TSMC does not blink? Not buy TSMC made chips? Obviously that is impossible, so the logical con…

There's no problem with having a trade deficit against one country. There's no need to balance each country, just as there's no need for people to have no imbalance in daily exchanges. It's as if you were going back to a barter economy where there was no money.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#269

Post by nevi-me »

There's going to be a lot of undoing actions that were taken because of an old bully who thinks the world is a celebrity game show.

Surely tariffs for 3 more years are less damaging than buying a sinking ship?

South African right wing farmers sold a story of a genocide and reverse racism, now they wish losing business because their exports are more expensive from the very tariffs that are a negotiation tactic to get their government to abolish or repel sine laws.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#270

Post by msgilligan »

estebarb wrote: post #263

I don't get it. Isn't it like forcing the foreign competitor into buying your only chicken that produces golden eggs. I really don't understand the logic behind this.

Well, to be fair, Intel stopped laying golden eggs years ago.
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