Tesla must pay portion of $329M damages after fatal Autopilot crash, jury says • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla must pay portion of $329M damages after fatal Autopilot crash, jury says

#261

Post by drewbeck » Sun, Aug 03, 2025, 11:30 AM UTC

aziaziazi wrote: post #258

For those not aware of the circonstances (as me), here’s Tesla defence: > this driver was solely at fault because he was speeding, with his foot on the accelerator—which overrode Autopilot—as he rummaged for his dropped phone without his eyes on the road There’s lots to blame in auto makers « security marketing » and phone addiction but it seems obvious that driving a 1ton+ vehicle while not constantly looking at the…

If someone wants the circumstances they should read the article, not Tesla’s press release. Here’s what the jury said:

… while McGee was two-thirds responsible for the crash, Tesla also bore a third of the responsibility for selling a vehicle "with a defect that was a legal cause of damage"

Re: Tesla must pay portion of $329M damages after fatal Autopilot crash, jury says

#262

Post by bryant » Sun, Aug 03, 2025, 11:32 AM UTC

aziaziazi wrote: post #258

For those not aware of the circonstances (as me), here’s Tesla defence: > this driver was solely at fault because he was speeding, with his foot on the accelerator—which overrode Autopilot—as he rummaged for his dropped phone without his eyes on the road There’s lots to blame in auto makers « security marketing » and phone addiction but it seems obvious that driving a 1ton+ vehicle while not constantly looking at the…

Do cars normally allow people to prevent emergency braking with the throttle depressed? I haven't actually tried this for obvious reasons, but if their defense is that the safety mechanisms were disengaged with the throttle being fully depressed...

(Clarified my comment to "prevent" from "override" since overrides broadly exist - per jeroenhd's comment - but it seems in this case the argument was that the feature never engaged)

Re: Tesla must pay portion of $329M damages after fatal Autopilot crash, jury says

#263

Post by thoroughburro » Sun, Aug 03, 2025, 11:32 AM UTC

aziaziazi wrote: post #258

For those not aware of the circonstances (as me), here’s Tesla defence: > this driver was solely at fault because he was speeding, with his foot on the accelerator—which overrode Autopilot—as he rummaged for his dropped phone without his eyes on the road There’s lots to blame in auto makers « security marketing » and phone addiction but it seems obvious that driving a 1ton+ vehicle while not constantly looking at the…

Do you usually learn about the circumstances of legal cases by reading the arguments of only one side?

Re: Tesla must pay portion of $329M damages after fatal Autopilot crash, jury says

#264

Post by charcircuit » Sun, Aug 03, 2025, 11:32 AM UTC

bryant wrote: post #259

This is by far the correct outcome. Given how long Tesla has been giving users the impression that the software would be superhuman (since 2013 with "Autopilot", and unrelatedly since 2016 with "full self driving"), they're overdue for the consequences, even if in this case they were only found partially liable. The driver took the fair share of the blame for actually making the decision, but the driver's defense tha…

This article is about autopilot which is separate from FSD and is essentially equivalent to cruise control in this context.

Re: Tesla must pay portion of $329M damages after fatal Autopilot crash, jury says

#265

Post by jeroenhd » Sun, Aug 03, 2025, 11:36 AM UTC

bryant wrote: post #262

aziaziazi wrote: post #258

For those not aware of the circonstances (as me), here’s Tesla defence: > this driver was solely at fault because he was speeding, with his foot on the accelerator—which overrode Autopilot—as he rummaged for his dropped phone without his eyes on the road There’s lots to blame in auto makers « security marketing » and phone addiction but it seems obvious that driving a 1ton+ vehicle while not constantly looking at the…

Do cars normally allow people to prevent emergency braking with the throttle depressed? I haven't actually tried this for obvious reasons, but if their defense is that the safety mechanisms were disengaged with the throttle being fully depressed... (Clarified my comment to "prevent" from "override" since overrides broadly exist - per jeroenhd's comment - but it seems in this case the argument was that the feature nev…

Many automatic safety features do allow user overrides, either by braking (hard) or by accelerating (fast). You may find that your accelerator pedal is harder to press than normal, or that full throttle doesn't do what it normally does. If a normal car does a Tesla and starts doing an emergency brake in the middle of the freeway for no reason, you want the driver to be able to intervene.

Re: Tesla must pay portion of $329M damages after fatal Autopilot crash, jury says

#266

Post by lupusreal » Sun, Aug 03, 2025, 11:41 AM UTC

I agree with the outcome, both Tesla and the driver share responsibility for this death. I hope the driver's responsibility isn't limited to civil liability; he was using his phone and should be charged with reckless homicide. He should be sent to prison.

Re: Tesla must pay portion of $329M damages after fatal Autopilot crash, jury says

#267

Post by pirates » Sun, Aug 03, 2025, 11:42 AM UTC

charcircuit wrote: post #264

bryant wrote: post #259

This is by far the correct outcome. Given how long Tesla has been giving users the impression that the software would be superhuman (since 2013 with "Autopilot", and unrelatedly since 2016 with "full self driving"), they're overdue for the consequences, even if in this case they were only found partially liable. The driver took the fair share of the blame for actually making the decision, but the driver's defense tha…

This article is about autopilot which is separate from FSD and is essentially equivalent to cruise control in this context.

So why is it called autopilot if it’s just cruise control? And what about “automatic piloting” doesn’t include the part where the thing drives itself?

Re: Tesla must pay portion of $329M damages after fatal Autopilot crash, jury says

#268

Post by bryant » Sun, Aug 03, 2025, 11:46 AM UTC

guywithahat wrote: post #4

> The company must pay $329 million in damages to victims and survivor, including compensatory and punitive damages. > A Tesla owner named George McGee was driving his Model S electric sedan while using the company’s Enhanced Autopilot, a partially automated driving system. > While driving, McGee dropped his mobile phone that he was using and scrambled to pick it up. He said during the trial that he believed Enhanced…

If there's an argument to be made that the damages are too high (I'm not making this argument, to be clear), it might be with the compensatory damages prescribed by the jury at $129 million, but then that begs the question of what the cost of a human life is. Money won't bring someone back, but if you're in a courtroom and forced to calculate this figure, it's better to just overestimate IMO.

But the punitive damages at $200 million are appropriate — it's what the jury thought would be appropriate to discourage Tesla's behaviors.

Re: Tesla must pay portion of $329M damages after fatal Autopilot crash, jury says

#269

Post by ghusto » Sun, Aug 03, 2025, 12:51 PM UTC

drewbeck wrote: post #261

aziaziazi wrote: post #258

For those not aware of the circonstances (as me), here’s Tesla defence: > this driver was solely at fault because he was speeding, with his foot on the accelerator—which overrode Autopilot—as he rummaged for his dropped phone without his eyes on the road There’s lots to blame in auto makers « security marketing » and phone addiction but it seems obvious that driving a 1ton+ vehicle while not constantly looking at the…

If someone wants the circumstances they should read the article, not Tesla’s press release. Here’s what the jury said: … while McGee was two-thirds responsible for the crash, Tesla also bore a third of the responsibility for selling a vehicle "with a defect that was a legal cause of damage"

That doesn't give the circumstances, but the judgement. The original commentor gave the circumstances.

Re: Tesla must pay portion of $329M damages after fatal Autopilot crash, jury says

#270

Post by ghusto » Sun, Aug 03, 2025, 12:55 PM UTC

naet wrote: post #84

SilverElfin wrote: post #6

> While driving, McGee dropped his mobile phone that he was using and scrambled to pick it up. He said during the trial that he believed Enhanced Autopilot would brake if an obstacle was in the way. His Model S accelerated through an intersection at just over 60 miles per hour, hitting a nearby empty parked car and its owners, who were standing on the other side of their vehicle. Hard for me to see this as anything b…

The argument is that if the driver was in a different vehicle he would have done just that, pulled over and picked it up, but because he believed the Tesla was capable of driving safely on it's own he didn't do so. Normally I turn the steering wheel when I want to turn my car. If you sold me a car and told me it had technology to make turns automatically without my input then I might let go of the wheel instead of tu…

They also said that by putting his foot down on the accelerator, he overrode the feature. He might say he didn't know that's how it worked, but then there's even more fault for performing such a dangerous action not knowing how the thing you think will save you is supposed to be operated.