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‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

latimes.com

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Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#261

Post by diggan »

swat535 wrote: post #205

Can someone living in Israel help me understand what is going on right now? What does the political climate look like in Israel? Do majority of people support what is happening, if so why? if not, how is the government executing this? Further, has this had any impact on the overall relationship between Jewish people worldwide and those residing in Israel? if so, how? I know that the media is all over the place and it…

The settlers been at this for a long, long time. It was hard for me to understand their perspective as well, because surely they most be seeing what they do as something good, like everyone else. There is a BBC documentary that goes into more depth, but a short snippet of the documentary can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrdldVhfbaU which includes a short interview with Daniella Weiss, a Orthodox Zionist who founded a organization focusing on creating these civilian colonies for Israelis.

As far as I can tell, from talking with Israelis both living in Israel and outside, there really isn't one majority thinking a certain way, it seems to me that there is an equal amount of people cheering the settlers as there are people against what they're doing.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#262

Post by JumpCrisscross »

js8 wrote: post #174
alkyon wrote: post #87

In ideal world international peacekeeping forces would be deployed in Gaza. The peace and two state solution could only be enforced by imposing severe sanctions on Israel including possibility of aerial NATO strikes like in the former Yugoslavia.

Is two-state solution possible? Just look at the map of the territories under palestinian control, they're bantustans. Israel/Palestine is factually one state, which simply doesn't accept half of its population as citizens. You could also say that "two-state solution" has been tried in 1948, but (for whatever reasons) didn't work out. So support for 2-state is just a form of delaying the inevitable. I am now firm bel…

> Is two-state solution possible?

More than a one-state solution.

Would it be nice if people could get along and not require militarised borders to keep them from killing each other? Sure. This was essentially the colonial assumption when the Middle East (and Africa’s) modern borders were drawn—that local preferences could be overcome by force of will.

In reality, where you draw borders on a map matters less than the people on the ground’s identities and guns.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#263

Post by buyucu »

forinti wrote: post #165

Once Gaza and the West Bank are taken care of, will Lebanon, Jordan, or Syria be next? Israel very much depends on being the dominant power in the region. If they lose US support, things could get ugly indeed. And they are losing support rapidly now.

Israel bombs Syria and Lebanon on a daily basis. There is an Israeli puppet dictator in power in Jordan.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#264

Post by ckemere »

pc86 wrote: post #160
rsyring wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'm not sure the answer to "centuries-old existential war between a bunch of Jews and a bunch of Muslims" is throwing Christianity into the mix.

Many Palestinians identify as Orthodox Christian, including former PLO leaders. This is not solely a Muslim v Jew conflict AFAIK.

(Would love education to the contrary!!!)

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#265

Post by DrillShopper »

Balgair wrote: post #206
alkyon wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the moment, the two sides only agree on wishing the other dead. So even in the ideal world it is a very remote possibility.

I also think we passed the window for a two state solution. Having two ethno-nationalist states next to each other is bad. Giving them a very complicated border is worse. Having them hate each other with centuries of history and territory claims is even worse still. Then giving them both, let alone one, access to the global arms market is asking for never ending wars of annihilation. If you could design a situation t…

The only reason the Palestinians are considered "ethno-nationalist" is that they are opposing a facist, genocidal, actually ethno-nationalist state that has spread its propaganda that any disagreement on any grounds is anti-semitism.

It's ridiculous and I know the moment I see someone dig into their bag of slander with that they are not arguing in good faith.

JIDF out in force again.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#266

Post by JumpCrisscross »

throwforfeds wrote: post #260
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Palestinian lives simply do not matter Lives in Palestine get far more attention than Burma, West Africa, Ethiopia and Sudan [1]. The basic truth is lives far removed from us tend to be forgettable. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_confli...

While we should absolutely be covering on-going civil wars and genocides across the world -- I personally listen to French news sources in order to understand what's going on across Africa -- the fact is that the US has provided Israel with over $300 billion since it's founding. For Sudan, that number is somewhere around $5 billion. So many of us here in the US are rightfully watching and questioning why our taxes ar…

> many of us here in the US are rightfully watching and questioning why our taxes are funding a genocide

This is fair. Claiming Palestinians are being ignored is not.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#267

Post by slt2021 »

OutOfHere wrote: post #252
sjapkee wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Do you know the sheer number of countries that the religion behind Palestine (starting with I) invaded and occupied? They still have the fastest growing population, and based on their birth rate, they can in a few thousand years replace everyone else everywhere.

you cannot defend the genocide (murder of people) by the increased birth rates. In fact, high birth rates is caused by high mortality rates.

The more jews engage in genocide and murder of Palestinians, the higher will be fertility, this is the law of demographics.

as for your Islam argument, the Islamic conquest was how many millennia ago? Is your argument that today we shall live by the laws of 7th century ? This only highlights the level of Israeli thinking: you guys still think like barbarians from 7th century and have no concept of human right and international law

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#268

Post by JumpCrisscross »

diggan wrote: post #261
swat535 wrote: post #205

Can someone living in Israel help me understand what is going on right now? What does the political climate look like in Israel? Do majority of people support what is happening, if so why? if not, how is the government executing this? Further, has this had any impact on the overall relationship between Jewish people worldwide and those residing in Israel? if so, how? I know that the media is all over the place and it…

The settlers been at this for a long, long time. It was hard for me to understand their perspective as well, because surely they most be seeing what they do as something good, like everyone else. There is a BBC documentary that goes into more depth, but a short snippet of the documentary can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrdldVhfbaU which includes a short interview with Daniella Weiss, a Orthodox Zio…

> it seems to me that there is an equal amount of people cheering the settlers as there are people against what they're doing

Speaking out of my ass here. But I’d guess most people don’t care. A minority cheers. A minority protests. Most go on with their lives.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#270

Post by JumpCrisscross »

falcor84 wrote: post #237
sjapkee wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You reminded me of this interview with Harlan Ellison that was making the rounds a while ago [0]. I think there's some kernel of truth there. I've heard a lot of people from both sides say that they prefer to die than to leave the land. So following up on Harlan's proposal, I would be in favour of the international community owning up to the situation and offering full asylum and permanent resettlement with a short-t…

> the international community owning up to the situation and offering full asylum and permanent resettlement with a short-term path to citizenship to every single person living in Israel & Palestine who prefers to live than to stay there, and then just letting those who prefer to stay and kill each other

This roughly describes the current situation. Israelis are internationally mobile. And while Palestinians are not, it’s hard to imagine enough of them emigrating to destabilise the current conflict conditions.

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