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XMLUI

blog.jonudell.net

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Re: XMLUI

#261

Post by gnramires »

I confess I have failed multiple times to build simple web pages (like a blog and homepage, admittedly after not too much effort), while I've made multiple fairly complex javascript animations using canvas and p5.js library. And I've made a few websites as a kid! (I'm not sure using free WYSIWYG or HTML directly).

So appreciate a lot new developments in the really-easy-to-use open source and text tools that also enable more involved use case!

Admittedly I also have not tried to learn React or other frameworks (most times I got stuck on backend basics).

It would be awesome if (almost) anyone could easily type out a website using simple and open source tools (specially with a little more involved functionality than just static content, or more free looks), and it just worked (with minimal coding required for the backend -- that's what's great about plain html imo, it's just a few files that contain your whole website). I mean, meanwhile it's great that something like hosted blogs exist of course.

Re: XMLUI

#262

Post by creesch »

gnramires wrote: post #261

I confess I have failed multiple times to build simple web pages (like a blog and homepage, admittedly after not too much effort), while I've made multiple fairly complex javascript animations using canvas and p5.js library. And I've made a few websites as a kid! (I'm not sure using free WYSIWYG or HTML directly). So appreciate a lot new developments in the really-easy-to-use open source and text tools that also enab…

To be frank, this would likely not help you. A simple web page is effectively simpler XML as the HTML elements that are already there are quite enough.

I might be completely off the mark here (edit while writing the comment, considering you mention static HTML I probably am, going to leave the comment anyway for others to see), but considering you seem to think that you need React (or any javascript for that matter) to me seems to hint at a practical knowledge gap about HTML and webpages in general.

Which, is more common these days exactly because modern libraries effectively abstract it away to the point where people only see HTML when looking at the DOM representation in the browser devtools.

> It would be awesome if (almost) anyone could easily type out a website using simple and open source tools (specially with a little more involved functionality than just static content, or more free looks),

It is interesting to me how we effectively regressed here. At least as far as common knowledge goes. You can still go to a basic shared webhosting provider, get a domain, some storage, mysql/mariadb datbase, php and do all of that with relatively little effort. Of course, PHP isn't considered to be relevant anymore which is entirely fair. But it is by far the most straightforward way to get a website going with an actual backend that doesn't require you to do cloud wrangling and all that.

Re: XMLUI

#263

Post by dotneteer »

cluckindan wrote: post #107

If this doesn’t use a compiler, the ”when” feature looks like it will require 'unsafe-eval' and potentially 'unsafe-inline' to be enabled in content security policy, which will disable browser XSS protections. Not optimal for an easy-to-use component system intended for display of remote data. Edit: I don’t see a CSP on the dogfooded homepage so I would assume this is an issue.

XMLUI does not execute JavaScript with "eval" or anything that would not comply with CSP. It runs interpreted JavaScript asynchronously in a sandbox and does not allow use of "eval" (and another dozen low-level functions, such as setTimeout).

Re: XMLUI

#264

Post by cluckindan »

rockwotj wrote: post #222
cluckindan wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because using htmx is asking to get defaced via XSS, or worse. Security is an afterthought for the project, which is evident from the placement of the related documentation.

How is this better?

It probably isn’t.

Re: XMLUI

#265

Post by cluckindan »

dotneteer wrote: post #263
cluckindan wrote: post #107

If this doesn’t use a compiler, the ”when” feature looks like it will require 'unsafe-eval' and potentially 'unsafe-inline' to be enabled in content security policy, which will disable browser XSS protections. Not optimal for an easy-to-use component system intended for display of remote data. Edit: I don’t see a CSP on the dogfooded homepage so I would assume this is an issue.

XMLUI does not execute JavaScript with "eval" or anything that would not comply with CSP. It runs interpreted JavaScript asynchronously in a sandbox and does not allow use of "eval" (and another dozen low-level functions, such as setTimeout).

So the project has implemented a custom JavaScript parser and evaluator in TypeScript?

Re: XMLUI

#266

Post by cluckindan »

btown wrote: post #176
cluckindan wrote: post #107

If this doesn’t use a compiler, the ”when” feature looks like it will require 'unsafe-eval' and potentially 'unsafe-inline' to be enabled in content security policy, which will disable browser XSS protections. Not optimal for an easy-to-use component system intended for display of remote data. Edit: I don’t see a CSP on the dogfooded homepage so I would assume this is an issue.

Just ship https://github.com/NeilFraser/JS-Interpreter and you’re good to go! /s

Looks like they actually went this route, but implemented it from scratch.

Re: XMLUI

#268

Post by getflourish »

What makes this different from React (which it is built on)?

- Components for data fetching

- IDs for bindings

Two seemingly simple details that lead to less code.

Re: XMLUI

#269

Post by gverrilla »

I may be wrong because my domain knowledge is limited, but it seems to me this should marketed to novices and non-programmers instead of your typical hn crowd. As a novice frontend "builder", it sounds this was made for people like me, but not this blog post - give me examples, whys and limits - tell me I won't even need to learn how React works.

Re: XMLUI

#270

Post by Klonoar »

djha-skin wrote: post #63
criddell wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also seen examples that are pushed way further than I thought possible. I'm thinking about some of the things people do in Excel.

In 2010 I was working for a student computer support shop. We had web developers building our own ticketing system. In those days, I was told that everything in the UI was just tables. It was the only way they could get enough control on UI elements before div tags became widely spread.

Div tags were widely spread by 2010, though.

We were pretty far past the era of falling back to tables by that point.

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