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Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

open-web-advocacy.org

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Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#261

Post by Yeul »

pxeger1 wrote: post #113

Relatedly, all Google apps (e.g. Maps) on iOS try very hard to push Chrome on you (even though iOS Chrome still has to use WebKit). When you click an external link, they present you the options of Chrome, Google (the search app), or Safari. This happens even if you don't have Chrome/Google installed, so they take you to the App Store instead of opening the webpage. If you choose Safari, it still doesn't open Safari,…

Interesting on Android you can easily set default browser and never get bothered about it.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#262

Post by resource_waste »

fkyoureadthedoc wrote: post #160
resource_waste wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is some wild moral coating.

It's the unfortunate truth. Nobody gives a shit about Firefox, not even Mozilla. Safari is the only major non chromium browser. You get rid of it and Google basically has full control of web standards and we've come full circle.

Oh its 'true' but does the pain of having to use Safari make up for some sort of benefit of having a non-chrome browser?

I really appreciate that you sacrifice your happiness in favor of Apple profits so I can have multiple browsers competing against chrome.

Thank you.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#263

Post by 9dev »

dmonitor wrote: post #250
OptionOfT wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same with Reddit. They have their own share sheet, and then 'other' which goes to the iOS built-in one. I wish Apple was more strict on this. There is no reason for them to have their own. Same with the photo viewer. I love the iOS photo viewer, it allows me to select text directly to copy it etc, but Reddit needs to use their own. On the other hand, it should be possible for me to set up a default photo viewer.

My guess is that the custom share sheet lets reddit see what services users are sharing to

…which is exactly what Apple should prevent apps from seeing. It’s none of Reddits business where I share links to.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#264

Post by Eisenstein »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #186
hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, because EU software companies were totally destroying the American software industry before the last decade… The EU’s relatively shrinking GDP has much more to do with their populations growing older and their population size stabilizing, and the relatively tiny amount of migration, than EU digital laws, most of which have been replicated throughout the world. Additionally, the EU has always had weak financial…

>The EU’s relatively shrinking GDP has much more to do with their populations growing older I'm not buying this argument. Same how the US's economy isn't stronger because Americans have more kids because we're not talking about agrarian civilizations here where every pair of hands on the farm ads proportional labor output. In service based economies, a smart person with a wealthy VC behind him can generate the GDP gr…

Labor is absolutely the bottleneck. You can come up with as many billion dollar ideas as you like, but without people to pay for them, where does the income come from? Economies grown because money flows, it gets invested, and that investment creates income, which goes to the workers and owners, and gets spent again. With fewer people, it doesn't matter how rich some of them get, the entire economy will slow down, because there is nowhere to productively spend that money in that economy -- it flows out.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#265

Post by thisislife2 »

bilbo0s wrote: post #242
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yeah. That particular one is definitely a case of “not today Satan”. I do wish there was a non-privacy invading maps app outside of Apple though.

Check out Organic Maps - https://organicmaps.app/ - it runs on OpenStreetMaps, is privacy focused (no data collection, no ads, no tracking), is open source, runs offline, is multi-platform and even supports old ios versions (which none of the other popular Maps app do).

(Old HN discussion - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37347447 )

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#266

Post by RamblingCTO »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #199
RamblingCTO wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you mean the US GDP is bigger because the US lacks consumer and environmental protection?

Everything has tradeoffs. You can protect children extremely well, if you mandate that every household have a live-in social worker, subsidized by the government with a 30% caretaker tax on top of standard income tax. If a government were to pass such legislation, do you hate children and love money that much to want to repeal it? At some point, protections are not feasible - and the EU's "consumer and environmental"…

I don't get your first paragraph, sorry.

But I disagree with your sentiment that the EU is going too far. Look at how healthy and happy the US is and how happy and healthy we are. The market, corporations and the economy are there to serve us, not to dominate us. Their existence is a means to an end, not an end in itself. Consumer and environmental protection are not a luxury, it's essential.

And surely, tariffs and trade wars have nothing to do with anything, right? It's just this damn overregulation and nothing else!!111

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#267

Post by 9dev »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #229
hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, because EU software companies were totally destroying the American software industry before the last decade… The EU’s relatively shrinking GDP has much more to do with their populations growing older and their population size stabilizing, and the relatively tiny amount of migration, than EU digital laws, most of which have been replicated throughout the world. Additionally, the EU has always had weak financial…

> Yeah, because EU software companies were totally destroying the American software industry before the last decade… In https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44553811 I pointed out that in the past a lot (former) successful German software were simply bought out by US-American software companies.

And that will continue, since it’s a reinforcing effect: Just like successful American startups tend to be bought by the big corps, the same happens here. There’s just no behemoth regionally to swallow them.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#268

Post by FirmwareBurner »

Eisenstein wrote: post #264
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The EU’s relatively shrinking GDP has much more to do with their populations growing older I'm not buying this argument. Same how the US's economy isn't stronger because Americans have more kids because we're not talking about agrarian civilizations here where every pair of hands on the farm ads proportional labor output. In service based economies, a smart person with a wealthy VC behind him can generate the GDP gr…

Labor is absolutely the bottleneck. You can come up with as many billion dollar ideas as you like, but without people to pay for them, where does the income come from? Economies grown because money flows, it gets invested, and that investment creates income, which goes to the workers and owners, and gets spent again. With fewer people, it doesn't matter how rich some of them get, the entire economy will slow down, be…

>Labor is absolutely the bottleneck.

Question: Europe has had an open door migration policy since at least 2015 and taken millions of migrants, especially Italy and Greece. Why haven't all those migrants turned EU's or Italy or Greece's economies into a powerhouse and built US big-tech competitors here? Same question for Canada. When is that magic economic growth from population growth coming?

Answer: Because US invests more money in high growth sectors than EU and Canada combined, and because people aren't fungible cogs in a machine, that you can swap in and out and get the same economic output it's agrarian labor. Attracting the handful of the smartest people in the world with money and resources like the US did, is more important and ads more value to their economy than attracting millions of desperate unskilled laborers like EU and Canada did.

>but without people to pay for them

Yes, people to pay for them, as in billionaire VCs pay for them, not millions of poor uneducated people, those can't even pay their rent without government support let alone boost economy. They aren't gonna boost anything except Amazon fulfillment center and Door dash delivery rates.

So NO, I don't agree with you at all. EU has enough local skilled college educated people since university is free here, but it has no VC money to amplify their labor into economic output as proven how many EU's top minds choose to work for US companies. Adding even more random people to a stagnating economy just means lower wages and bargaining power with higher rents, not more wealth growth per capita. Your comment does not disprove any of this.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#269

Post by fsflover »

hbn wrote: post #238
MangoToupe wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Security for who against what threat? It's hard to make the case this is possibly in the users' interest. This is about securing the phone in Apple's interest against the desires of the user.

As an iOS and web user, it is my desire that Apple doesn't allow other browser engines because immediately Google and other web devs will start pushing webapps that only work with mobile Chrome and we'll all be forced to install a Chromium browser to use certain websites, it becomes default and users will think "Safari sucks now, a bunch of websites don't work with it," finally ending Google's last bit of real compet…

> Google and other web devs will start pushing webapps that only work with mobile Chrome

This is anti-competitive and should be illegal, too.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#270

Post by jlokier »

pxeger1 wrote: post #113

Relatedly, all Google apps (e.g. Maps) on iOS try very hard to push Chrome on you (even though iOS Chrome still has to use WebKit). When you click an external link, they present you the options of Chrome, Google (the search app), or Safari. This happens even if you don't have Chrome/Google installed, so they take you to the App Store instead of opening the webpage. If you choose Safari, it still doesn't open Safari,…

Several comments point out this doesn't happen on Android.

I'm using Android, with my default browser set to Firefox Focus, and I found:

- Every few months, the default browser gets reset to Chrome. I don't know this has happened until I realise I'm looking at something in Chrome. Then I look at the default browser setting, see it changed to Chrome (without my consent, and as far as I know, no notification), and I change it back to Firefox Focus. This has happened at least twice in the last year.

- For a while, when opening things from Google Search it opened them in Chrome. However I'm unable to replicate that now.

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