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Bulgaria to join euro area on 1 January 2026

ecb.europa.eu

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Re: Bulgaria to join euro area on 1 January 2026

#261

Post by Svip »

consp wrote: post #192
Svip wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because the powers that be want the euro, but the people didn't. They were asked in 1992, 1993 and 2000; and effectively they said no to the euro every time (yes, I know; in 1993, the euro was specifically opted out, but the fact that it was approved when the year before a referendum with the euro was rejected suggests – at least partially – that it was a rejection of the euro (among other things)). Denmark th…

This all reads as symbolic nationalist policies with an added burocracy thus costing more than it should. "We need own coin to control [insert nationalist thing here]" but in practice you won't and never did. The last time I was in Denmark my bank nicely charged me for the conversion despite the coin being fixed to the euro. It is just a money costing machine which adds no value.

As noted, the politicians wanted to switch to the euro; but it's the voters who said no. Twice or thrice, depending on how you count. That isn't a case of "symbolic nationalistic policies", but rather a state apparatus trying to get around the rejection, whilst sticking to the text of the referenda (but perhaps not the spirit of it).

Re: Bulgaria to join euro area on 1 January 2026

#262

Post by xdennis »

mrtksn wrote: post #138
ReptileMan wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>that Turks are the absolute evil Devshirme, Janissary corps, Batak massacre? There is huge blood debt that is owed to the Balkans and Armenia by the Ottoman Empire and their successor states.

Tell me about an empire who conquered and held conquered land through asking politely. If you are able to come up with any, Ottomans certainly were not among those sure. That's why people don't like being invaded by empires. What do you think the first and the second Bulgarian Empires did exactly? BTW Just like the way Bulgarians may not recognize that the Bulgarian Empire had a military and killed people in order to…

> Tell me about an empire who conquered and held conquered land through asking politely. If you are able to come up with any

This is not what it's about. It's not about the Turks being evil and Bulgarians et al being angels. It's about the fact that Turks refuse to accept responsibility.

Let me give you an example. I'm Romanian. There are many uneducated folks you'll meet in Romania who deny we killed hundreds of thousands of Jews in WW2. But no serious politician, historian, public figure, or educated person denies that.

The same is not true in Turkey. Pretty much everyone denies the Armenian Genocide.

All of us have shameful periods in our history, but some of us at least have the decency to not deny it.

But, of course, how could you see the genocide as evil when you can't even come to grips with the older Devshirme, a practice where boys were abducted, mutilated (circumcision), forced converted to Islam, executed if they were found praying to Jesus, and trained to fight and kill their own countrymen.

Re: Bulgaria to join euro area on 1 January 2026

#263

Post by remon »

Roark66 wrote: post #108
decimalenough wrote: post #22

Credit where credit is due: the EU gets a lot of flack for being bureaucratic, hidebound, sclerotic, whatever, but the single currency has been a success and it's still expanding, 26 years after its creation. Also, the addition of Bulgaria means it's almost possible to travel from Spain to Greece entirely through the Eurozone, with only a thin sliver of Serbia or Macedonia in the way. (Assuming we include Montenegro…

Polish here, very much against adopting the euro until our standard of living and growth rate matches Germany (no at least not for next 10 years). Why? Because the disadvantages far out weight the benefits for developing countries. The biggest issue is giving up one of the biggest instrument of control over the economy to a supra-national non-democratic organisation. Surely the monetary policy will follow what is bes…

Being able to buy groceries with euros is not a strong, or even related, argument to the point you're making. Even ignoring the real economic cost of having two currencies, there is no serious economist that would argue Poland joining the EUR zone is negative for Poland (as opposed to for stronger EU economies). Every single historic metric points in the other direction. Poland's economy is maturing and strengthening and median household income is slowly reaching parity with neighbouring countries so this particular argument may only hold for maybe another decade but until then it's a bit misguided. Also, not for nothing but the Polish economy is mostly doing as well as it does because of the metric ton of EU subsidies injected into it the past decades. Poland is one of the largest net receivers of EU money since 2004 so arguing it or its single currency was somehow a net negative to Poland is, and by extension an odd argument to make for someone benefiting from the above as a Polish citizen.

Re: Bulgaria to join euro area on 1 January 2026

#264

Post by remon »

wolvesechoes wrote: post #132
Roark66 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polish here, very much against adopting the euro until our standard of living and growth rate matches Germany (no at least not for next 10 years). Why? Because the disadvantages far out weight the benefits for developing countries. The biggest issue is giving up one of the biggest instrument of control over the economy to a supra-national non-democratic organisation. Surely the monetary policy will follow what is bes…

Controlling currency is one of the most important aspects of being a sovereign country. Poland should adopt euro not sooner than Denmark and Sweden.

That currency has a fixed exchange rate to the euro. Any perceived sovereignty benefits are fictitious.

Re: Bulgaria to join euro area on 1 January 2026

#265

Post by saubeidl »

blub wrote: post #198
perching_aix wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it really isn't that inconvenient at all, and some of the caps are outright better now than the crap that preceded them. Bit like how the toilet water use regulations turned out. I even find myself vaguely annoyed now whenever I drink from glass bottles, that those caps are loose. > People are upset because it shows Brussels disfunction Reminds me to that meme where the debated point is what OS is better, and the…

I didn’t know this was an EU regulation, but if it is, it’s utterly dumb. The new lids are harder for kids to use, bother you when drinking, get in the way when pouring and are a general nuisance.

> bother you when drinking, get in the way when pouring

How? Just rotate it by 90 degrees. It's really not that hard, and in return you will never lose a cap again and we reduce litter by quite a bit. It's a pretty good trade-off imo.

Re: Bulgaria to join euro area on 1 January 2026

#266

Post by knorker »

lmm wrote: post #238
knorker wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> businesses operate nationwide, employees routinely move across the country Could you elaborate on what you mean? I've not run a business, but from the people I know who do complain similarly about cross-EU and cross-US-state business. Like the company based in Texas who got their first employee in New York. Suddenly they needed some sort of presence in New York State, get a separate insurance, and accountants for N…

Opening an office in a new state may be just as difficult as opening an office in a new country, but my sense is that both a) selling to the entire US and b) hiring employees from the entire US (with the requirement to relocate to the state where you operate) are substantially easier than doing the same things across the entire EU.

To be clear, I don't just mean opening a physical office. I also mean the cost of having your first remote worker who lives and works from another state.

For employee relocation, that's definitely true. Even moving from Hawaii to Alaska is less of a life change than Spain to Poland. Or hell, probably even Spain to Portugal.

I'm surprised to hear you say selling would be that hard, though. It'd be interesting to see a comparison. And there's also both B2C and B2B.

Re: Bulgaria to join euro area on 1 January 2026

#267

Post by xdennis »

isodev wrote: post #13
mc32 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also the experience of Greece not too far back and the austerity imposed by Germany is not quite forgotten. Varoufakis[1] can attest to its severity. The Greeks voted against it but Germany imposed its will. [1] https://jacobin.com/2025/07/yanis-varoufakis-on-the-legacy-o...

And yet, Greece recovered to become a leading economy in the region. The propaganda is strong on the airwaves these days, just like in the US, one shouldn’t react to “facts” taken out of context. It seems (from here), support for Russia is somehow magically going down as Russia’s economy is having trouble paying for its “support” abroad.

I'm not quite sure about that. Romania is bigger because it has a bigger population, but look even at this GDP per capita comparison with Romania.

    Greece: 31695 (2008), 25756 (2025), 31014 (2030, projected)
   Romania: 10435 (2008), 21421 (2025), 28809 (2030, projected)
It won't be until 2030 that Greece will recover, and I'm pretty sure it's slow growth is because of its huge debt because of the euro.

Re: Bulgaria to join euro area on 1 January 2026

#268

Post by keiferski »

remon wrote: post #263
Roark66 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polish here, very much against adopting the euro until our standard of living and growth rate matches Germany (no at least not for next 10 years). Why? Because the disadvantages far out weight the benefits for developing countries. The biggest issue is giving up one of the biggest instrument of control over the economy to a supra-national non-democratic organisation. Surely the monetary policy will follow what is bes…

Being able to buy groceries with euros is not a strong, or even related, argument to the point you're making. Even ignoring the real economic cost of having two currencies, there is no serious economist that would argue Poland joining the EUR zone is negative for Poland (as opposed to for stronger EU economies). Every single historic metric points in the other direction. Poland's economy is maturing and strengthening…

Also, not for nothing but the Polish economy is mostly doing as well as it does because of the metric ton of EU subsidies injected into it the past decades.

That's one part of it. The other part is that the country had just as much human capital and economic potential as Western European states, but was held back artificially by the Partitions, WW2, the Soviet Union, and the lack of Marshall Plan investment that Western Europe received.

Sorry, but the narrative of "Poland is only doing well because the EU is helping" (of which German companies are benefitting from tremendously) is a historically narrow way to analyze the situation.

Re: Bulgaria to join euro area on 1 January 2026

#269

Post by wolvesechoes »

decimalenough wrote: post #250
wolvesechoes wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If being nationalistic means preferring that currency in your country is controlled by the government you have elected and not by ECB that you have zero control over, then yes. Ask Greeks how much they enjoyed ECB involvement.

The Danish krone is pegged to the euro, meaning it's already effectively controlled by the ECB.

It is not fully pegged, and though it ties their hands somewhat, this is not "effectively" the same as adopting the euro. Krone still can be un-pegged if Denmark decides to do so.

Re: Bulgaria to join euro area on 1 January 2026

#270

Post by wolvesechoes »

remon wrote: post #264
wolvesechoes wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Controlling currency is one of the most important aspects of being a sovereign country. Poland should adopt euro not sooner than Denmark and Sweden.

That currency has a fixed exchange rate to the euro. Any perceived sovereignty benefits are fictitious.

The biggest sovereignty benefit is that it can stop following fixed exchange rate if necessary, what is much easier than moving away from euro.
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