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Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

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Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#261

Post by intended »

EMIRELADERO wrote: post #78
deanCommie wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except they weren't really "support systems" i mean they were, if you got lucky. If you were neurotypical; if you bought in to the local religious sect's particular flavour and embraced it wholeheartedly; if you followed the other local cults of sports fandoms; if you were lucky enough to either have family without their own trauma that didn't take it out on you OR decided to repress it in exactly the same way that t…

I agree with everything you said except for the last paragraph. The people who, according to your theory, want to reverse the tolerance trend and slide towards fascism/authoritarianism didn't pop out today. They existed and lived in society in the 2010s too. So, from a logical standpoint, what changed?

Nothing changed - mostly it seems the American condition is a side effect of dedicated partisanship and asymmetric political behavior since the 1970s.

The media apparatus in America has split into a center and left, and then a right wing which has different norms and produces its own products.

That in turn has created a durable political coalition that self referentially calls itself when it needs to support its descriptions on reality.

It’s significantly more effective at producing narratives, and moving ideas from the fringes to the main stream news channels.

Since it has little traffic with the left and center media channels, it avoids counter claims and norms on journalistic standards.

So you can now primary Bipartisan politicians, and then the ideas that gain media attention are the ones that reinforces party talking points. Counter views simply do not get air time.

What we are seeing today, is the progression of those forces, as the narratives are never challenged.

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#262

Post by gsf_emergency_2 »

zdragnar wrote: post #179
dsubburam wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This parallels the debate about free will and determinism. If you were in the determinist camp, believing that all that one does was predetermined by prior environmental causes, could you still hold people responsible for their actions? Hobart makes a convincing argument that you can: "Fatalism says that my morrow is determined no matter how I struggle. This is of course a superstition. Determinism says that my morro…

The problem is conflating one's identity with the label allows a person to project all of their problems onto the rest of the world. By "being" the label, one has little to no agency over it. Without agency, there is no responsibility, nor incentive to change. Without responsibility or incentive to change, there is no problem for the individual; rather the problem is everyone else. This isn't just something that a pe…

You can force agency, ironically, by applying subjective labels that require irrational amounts of hard work to shake off (not just a change of perspective, tho a permanent one also requires undue amounts of schlep)

Like "unwell"*, "uncool" or "has bad taste"

In the barbaric old days, like you mean, there was racism (no longer objective)... Nowadays you can deny my suggested labels are cruel, plausibly, even in court!

*"Sick" is now a term of endearment, alas

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#263

Post by Walf »

osn9363739 wrote: post #259
Walf wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

So you agree with nomdep? If you know you have time blindness it's a good opportunity to do something about it. I tend to choose the be really early option because that works for me. But it can be stressful for sure. And I probably don't get as much done as someone that can organise their time better. That's just the way it goes.

False dichotomy. You can both take measures to address an issue you have, and still know that won't always solve the problem. Being really early sometimes is the only option, but if you're always doing it, regardless of how critical it is, you're wasting a huge amount of waking life.

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#264

Post by theusus »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #154
theusus wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is because all those support systems: family, friends, and local communities (religious or otherwise), have all degraded so severely. I disagree! There was never a good support system at all. We used to just man up and live with it. Now that stress is reaching it's new heights. We can't cope with it.

I'm very curious as to how you come to the conclusion that 'stress' has increased. I don't suppose it's that the world is more stressful, WWII, cold war, a thousand famines throughout history, what makes us so stressed that we can't cope in some way that we used to be able to cope?

We just suffered at that time and prayed. Today we suffer and work together.

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#265

Post by nlitened »

borski wrote: post #127
Loughla wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand what you're saying, but experience has taught me that many many many people use whatever the thing is (trauma, ADHD, whatever) as an excuse to act however they want whenever they want. It becomes a crutch, or a security blanket to let them just be okay with wallowing in the negativity and externalizing every problem. There has to be a happy medium. I have some neuro issues, and yet I understand that whil…

Some people find excuses anywhere they look. But we shouldn’t stigmatize those who don’t on behalf of those who do; the vast majority of people are not that way, which is why they stand out when they are, imho. And it is more important to not stigmatize talking about it at all than it is to optimize for some people not using it as an excuse.

No need to stigmatize people, but it is very important to stigmatize bad behavior

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#266

Post by Tokumei-no-hito »

lodovic wrote: post #257
Tokumei-no-hito wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's 28% gen z in the US. that's roughly 94M and 70M are on tiktok

You are pulling numbers out of thin air. First you claim 100m 18-30 year olds (the number is closer to 55m) and now you inflate gen Z numbers too (my count is less than 70M, and there is just no way that 100% of them are tiktok users). Here are some real sources https://media.market.us/gen-z-statistics/ https://www.neilsberg.com/insights/united-states-population-...

that's fair. i went off the AI generated answer. here's some links, i was off but the number is still significant.

50% users under 30 (gen z). only counts 18-30, estimate as you will for those under 18 (to be fair she only referenced gen z): https://explodingtopics.com/blog/tiktok-demographics

total users in US is 170M: https://backlinko.com/tiktok-users

your call on if 85M users 18-30 is "[gen z] society".

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#268

Post by nlitened »

automatoney wrote: post #125
borski wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Knowing you have ADHD, childhood trauma, attachment issues, etc. is useless if that knowledge does not enable you to take action or if you don't intend to take action. That’s not actually true, and misses the point. Knowing you have ADHD, alone , helps you stop blaming yourself and hating yourself for those things that are caused by the ADHD. It doesn’t excuse it, but understanding that those things aren’t moral fa…

Your comment made me realize that maybe we're just going through the transition to a collectively better understanding of people. Right now we sort of have to pass through the clinical diagnosis/therapy terms in order to recognize something as not being a moral failure/making someone less valuable as a person. And then the next step we're building to is maybe like acceptance of people's differences without needing to…

If someone is overly aggressive, or rarely fulfills promises, or is very negative about things, or has a very fragile ego — it absolutely makes them less valuable as a person to others. Just look up any definitions of the word “valuable”

Re: Nobody has a personality anymore: we are products with labels

#270

Post by DavidPiper »

cowboyscott wrote: post #83

> This is part of a deeper instinct in modern life, I think, to explain everything. Psychologically, scientifically, evolutionarily. Everything about us is caused, categorised, and can be corrected. We talk in theories, frameworks, systems, structures, drives, motivations, mechanisms. But in exchange for explanation, we lost mystery, romance, and lately, I think, ourselves. This is the rejection of science applied to…

I think it's a rejection of categorisation and labeling as a form of (self-)determinism, not a rejection of science.
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