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Framework Laptop 12 review

arstechnica.com

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Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#261

Post by dzhiurgis »

atrus wrote: post #148
nucleardog wrote: post #130

> A good laptop, but not a good value Where "value" is purely monetary, I think that pretty succinctly sums up my experience/views on the Framework product line. They make good laptops, but you can generally get more for fewer dollars. If you're shopping on price, you can probably just skip right over their entire product line. That doesn't mean that their offering doesn't have value. It has value has a vote with you…

I think the repairabilty makes it hard to even compare monetary value, since in theory, you'd be keeping the same body, while swapping out the mainboard. Is it cheaper to buy two other laptops compared to one laptop + mainboard? That's what, a 3-5 year timeline? Who knows what prices/capabilities/etc will be like then.

Why would I care when I can get at least 4 years worth of AppleCare from Apple?

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#262

Post by dzhiurgis »

paxys wrote: post #228
atrus wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the repairabilty makes it hard to even compare monetary value, since in theory, you'd be keeping the same body, while swapping out the mainboard. Is it cheaper to buy two other laptops compared to one laptop + mainboard? That's what, a 3-5 year timeline? Who knows what prices/capabilities/etc will be like then.

And it isn't just about upgrading for better specs. I'd wager the majority of people's laptop replacement cycle is triggerd by a single part dying (screen, hard disk, keyboard, hinges, PSU), the device being out of warranty, and the store quoting more for the fix than a new device would cost. Being able to purchase the $50 part online and do the repair yourself will probably save the average person thousands over a 3…

You can get AppleCare for at least 4 years now, not sure if you can extend beyond that.

Also, while I can repair laptops myself, I for sure don't want to.

For me cheap storage is the only sell and even that I can mitigate with tiny flush external SSD stick and/or NAS.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#263

Post by brunoqc »

spankibalt wrote: post #185

"Interesting" product placement (already within their portfolio, compared to the Framework 13). Sadly, they didn't succeed in making their unique features (compared to their and the market's other offerings) really useful by: 1. Using substandard digitzer tech (something as performant and economical as Wacom EMR is needed). One cannot compromise here. I get that this might also be a licensing issue. 2. Making the dev…

> 10.3 inch or smaller is better

Any good non-apple devices have that?

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#265

Post by Steltek »

Lammy wrote: post #37

I really love the lavender — VAIO-core! I do wish I could get the other modules in lavender too, but I understand why they wouldn't want to fractally-complicate their stock keeping for those items. > the Laptop 12 can only fit a single DDR5 RAM slot, which reduces memory bandwidth and limits your RAM capacity to 48GB According to this post from a Framework team member, a single 64GB SODIMM will work too and just didn…

> I do wish I could get the other modules in lavender too

Since we're in plastic/budget territory, is it absurd to consider a color matching sticker/wrap over the basic modules?

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#266

Post by ben-schaaf »

linsomniac wrote: post #190
atrus wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the repairabilty makes it hard to even compare monetary value, since in theory, you'd be keeping the same body, while swapping out the mainboard. Is it cheaper to buy two other laptops compared to one laptop + mainboard? That's what, a 3-5 year timeline? Who knows what prices/capabilities/etc will be like then.

>in theory, you'd be keeping the same body, while swapping out the mainboard. I love the idea of Framework, but the upgradability seems questionable to me. I base this off my experience with desktops where I've rarely over the decades upgraded more than the hard drive and RAM. When I'm looking at upgrading the motherboard it seems I just end up going all the way and getting a new case/ps/etc at the same time. Maybe t…

It's definitely been different on desktop for me. My computer's been ship of thesiussed twice over, but even when I changed the case,PSU,MB,CPU,cooler that one time the GPU and storage stayed. I've changed CPU 4 times and GPU 5 times over the past >15 years.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#267

Post by dtnewman »

nucleardog wrote: post #130

> A good laptop, but not a good value Where "value" is purely monetary, I think that pretty succinctly sums up my experience/views on the Framework product line. They make good laptops, but you can generally get more for fewer dollars. If you're shopping on price, you can probably just skip right over their entire product line. That doesn't mean that their offering doesn't have value. It has value has a vote with you…

I actually get a lot of value out of the repairability. It lets me buy a cheaper computer upfront without having to worry about whether i can upgrade later on.

How many times have I thought, maybe i should get 2tb just in case, and then end up using 500gb. With framework, I'll buy the 1TB and the cost to upgrade is very low if I ever need to.

Same thing with memory. Maybe i need 16, maybe 32, maybe 64. I tend to buy more than i need out of fear. I just don't have that fear with framework.

Oh, and don't even get me started with repairs. If my screen breaks, i know the time to fix is however long their shipping lead time is, since the repair itself will take me 15 minutes.

In general, i think that value depends on how you see a computer. $1000-2000 is a lot to spend on something you use for fun. It's really not much to spend on something you use every day for work. And it's even less if your company is paying.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#268

Post by pcchristie »

linsomniac wrote: post #190
atrus wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the repairabilty makes it hard to even compare monetary value, since in theory, you'd be keeping the same body, while swapping out the mainboard. Is it cheaper to buy two other laptops compared to one laptop + mainboard? That's what, a 3-5 year timeline? Who knows what prices/capabilities/etc will be like then.

>in theory, you'd be keeping the same body, while swapping out the mainboard. I love the idea of Framework, but the upgradability seems questionable to me. I base this off my experience with desktops where I've rarely over the decades upgraded more than the hard drive and RAM. When I'm looking at upgrading the motherboard it seems I just end up going all the way and getting a new case/ps/etc at the same time. Maybe t…

The main difference is the chassis is ~ 10% of the cost of a desktop. It's ~ 40% (?) of the cost of a Framework, so rolling it forward (with screen, speakers, mic, keyboard, webcam etc.) saves you a fair bit more value.

I haven't checked those %s but just using them notionally.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#269

Post by scheme271 »

CoffeeOnWrite wrote: post #200
linsomniac wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in theory, you'd be keeping the same body, while swapping out the mainboard. I love the idea of Framework, but the upgradability seems questionable to me. I base this off my experience with desktops where I've rarely over the decades upgraded more than the hard drive and RAM. When I'm looking at upgrading the motherboard it seems I just end up going all the way and getting a new case/ps/etc at the same time. Maybe t…

Because the old machine is still useful intact. I don’t see a difference between laptop and desktop here. I agree I don’t see myself ever swapping in an upgraded motherboard.

There's kits that let you adapt the old motherboard into a server unit. It's a nice way to get a faster laptop while reusing your old components.

Re: Framework Laptop 12 review

#270

Post by insane_dreamer »

brunoqc wrote: post #264
insane_dreamer wrote: post #220

I have a Framework 12 laptop running Ubuntu. I use it mostly for dev (so I don't care about gaming, Windows, etc.). I mostly like it, but I have two gripes: - the touchpad is atrocious - battery life is mediocre

How come you already have a Framework 12?

My bad! - meant to write 13
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