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The world could run on older hardware if software optimization was a priority

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Re: The world could run on older hardware if software optimization was a priority

#261
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m surprised in your list because it contains 3 apps that I’ve replaced specifically due to performance issues (docker, iterm and notes). I don’t consider myself particularly performance sensitive (at home) either. So it might be true that the world is even _less_ likely to pay for resource efficiency than we think.

What did you replace Docker with?

Podman

Re: The world could run on older hardware if software optimization was a priority

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if end-users had the data to reasonably tie-break on software quality and performance, as I scroll my list of open applications not a single one of them can be swapped out with another just because it were more performant. For example: Docker, iterm2, WhatsApp, Notes.app, Postico, Cursor, Calibre. I'm using all of these for specific reasons, not for reasons so trivial that I can just use the best-performing solu…

Except you’ve already swapped terminal for iterm, and orbstack already exists in part because docker left so much room for improvement, especially on the perf front.

I swapped Terminal for iTerm2 because I wanted specific features, not because of performance. iTerm2 is probably slower for all I care.

Another example is that I use oh-my-zsh which is adds weirdly long startup time to a shell session, but it lets me use plugins that add things like git status and kubectl context to my prompt instead of fiddling with that myself.

Re: The world could run on older hardware if software optimization was a priority

#263

The goal isn't optimized code, it is utility/value prop. The question then is how do we get the best utility/value given the resources we have. This question often leads to people believing optimization is the right path since it would use fewer resources and therefore the value prop would be higher. I believe they are both right and wrong. For me, almost universally, good optimization ends up simplifying things as i…

You're just replacing one favorite solution with another. Would users want simplicity at the cost of performance? Would they pay more for it? I don't think so.

You're right that the crux of it is that the only thing that matters is pure user value and that it comes in many forms. We're here because development cost and feature set provide the most obvious value.

Re: The world could run on older hardware if software optimization was a priority

#264

The world DOES run on older hardware. How new do you think the CPU in your bank ATM or car's ECU is?

Powerplants and planes still run on 80s hardware.

Modern planes do not, and many older planes have been retrofitted, in whole or in part, with more modern computers.

Some of the specific embedded systems (like the sensors that feed back into the main avionics systems) may still be using older CPUs if you squint, but it's more likely a modern version of those older designs.

Re: The world could run on older hardware if software optimization was a priority

#265
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dumbest and most obvious of realizations finally dawned on me after trying to build a software startup that was based on quality differentiation. We were sure that a better product would win people over and lead to viral success. It didn’t. Things grew, but so slowly that we ran out of money after a few years before reaching break even. What I realized is that lower costs, and therefore lower quality, are a compe…

I kind of see this in action when I'm comparing products on Amazon. When comparing two products on Amazon that are substantially the same, the cheaper one will have way more reviews. I guess this implies that it has captured the majority of the market.

Luxury items however seem to buck this trend, but this is all about conspicuous consumption.

Re: The world could run on older hardware if software optimization was a priority

#266
I already run on older hardware and most people can if they chose to - haven't bought a new computer since 2005. Perhaps the OS can adopt a "serverless" model where high computational tasks are offloaded as long as there is sufficient bandwidth.

Re: The world could run on older hardware if software optimization was a priority

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm looking at our Datadog stats right now. It is 64% cpu 36% IO.

That's great for you. How much infrastructure do you run?

Small Python backend deployment 30 machines 1 DB.

Re: The world could run on older hardware if software optimization was a priority

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if end-users had the data to reasonably tie-break on software quality and performance, as I scroll my list of open applications not a single one of them can be swapped out with another just because it were more performant. For example: Docker, iterm2, WhatsApp, Notes.app, Postico, Cursor, Calibre. I'm using all of these for specific reasons, not for reasons so trivial that I can just use the best-performing solu…

I’m surprised in your list because it contains 3 apps that I’ve replaced specifically due to performance issues (docker, iterm and notes). I don’t consider myself particularly performance sensitive (at home) either. So it might be true that the world is even _less_ likely to pay for resource efficiency than we think.

Podman might have some limited API compatibility, but it's a completely different tool. Just off the bat it's not compatible with Skaffold, apparently.

That an alternate tool might perform better is compatible with the claim that performance alone is never the only difference between software.

Podman might be faster than Docker, but since it's a different tool, migrating to it would involve figuring out any number of breakage in my toolchain that doesn't feel worth it to me since performance isn't the only thing that matters.

Re: The world could run on older hardware if software optimization was a priority

#269
Imagine software engineering was like real engineering, where the engineers had licensing and faced fines or even prison for negligence. How much of the modern worlds software would be tolerated?

Very, very little.

If engineers handled the Citicorp center the same way software engineers did, the fix would have been to update the documentation in Confluence to not expose the building to winds and then later on shrug when it collapsed.

Re: The world could run on older hardware if software optimization was a priority

#270
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I taking crazy pills or are programs not nearly as slow as HN comments make them out to be? Almost everything loads instantly on my 2021 MacBook and 2020 iPhone. Every program is incredibly responsive. 5 year old mobile CPUs load modern SPA web apps with no problems. The only thing I can think of that’s slow is Autodesk Fusion starting up. Not really sure how they made that so bad but everything else seems super s…

I just clicked on the network icon next to the clock on a Windows 11 laptop. A gray box appeared immediately, about one second later all the buttons for wifi, bluetooth, etc appeared. Windows is full of situations like this, that require no network calls, but still take over one second to render.

Yep. I suspect GP has just gotten used to this and it is the new “snappy” to them.

I see this all the time with people who have old computers.

“My computer is really fast. I have no need to upgrade”

I press cmd+tab and watch it take 5 seconds to switch to the next window.

That’s a real life interaction I had with my parents in the past month. People just don’t know what they’re missing out on if they aren’t using it daily.

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