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GPT-4.1 in the API

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Re: GPT-4.1 in the API

#261
post #238

Sam Altman wrote in February that GPT-4.5 would be "our last non-chain-of-thought model" [1], but GPT-4.1 also does not have internal chain-of-thought [2]. It seems like OpenAI keeps changing its plans. Deprecating GPT-4.5 less than 2 months after introducing it also seems unlikely to be the original plan. Changing plans is necessarily a bad thing, but I wonder why. Did they not expect this model to turn out as well…

[deleted]

Re: GPT-4.1 in the API

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely an issue. Even the simplest use case of "create React app with Vite and Tailwind" is broken with these models right now because they're not up to date.

Try getting then to output Svelte 5 code...

Svelte 5 is the antidote to vibe coding.

Re: GPT-4.1 in the API

#263

No benchmark comparisons to other models, especially Gemini 2.5 Pro, is telling.

Go look at their past blog posts. OpenAI only ever benchmarks against their own models. This is pretty common across industries. The leader doesn’t compare themselves to the competition.

Okay, it's common across other industries, but not this one. Here is Google, Facebook, and Anthropic comparing their frontier models to others[1][2][3].

[1] https://blog.google/technology/google-deepmind/gemini-model-...

[2] https://ai.meta.com/blog/llama-4-multimodal-intelligence/

[3] https://www.anthropic.com/claude/sonnet

Re: GPT-4.1 in the API

#264
post #203

don't miss that OAI also published a prompting guide WITH RECEIPTS for GPT 4.1 specifically for those building agents... with a new recommendation for: - telling the model to be persistent (+20%) - dont self-inject/parse toolcalls (+2%) - prompted planning (+4%) - JSON BAD - use XML or arxiv 2406.13121 (GDM format) - put instructions + user query at TOP -and- BOTTOM - bottom-only is VERY BAD - no evidence that ALL CA…

As an aside, one of the worst aspects of the rise of LLMs, for me, has been the wholesale replacement of engineering with trial-and-error hand-waving. Try this, or maybe that, and maybe you'll see a +5% improvement. Why? Who knows. It's just not how I like to work.

Out of curiosity, what do you work on where you don’t have to experiment with different solutions to see what works best?

Re: GPT-4.1 in the API

#265
post #238

Sam Altman wrote in February that GPT-4.5 would be "our last non-chain-of-thought model" [1], but GPT-4.1 also does not have internal chain-of-thought [2]. It seems like OpenAI keeps changing its plans. Deprecating GPT-4.5 less than 2 months after introducing it also seems unlikely to be the original plan. Changing plans is necessarily a bad thing, but I wonder why. Did they not expect this model to turn out as well…

Anyone making claims with a horizon beyond two months about structure or capabilities will be wrong - it's sama's job to show confidence and vision and calm stakeholders, but if you're paying attention to the field, the release and research cycles are still contracting, with no sense of slowing any time soon. I've followed AI research daily since GPT-2, the momentum is incredible, and even if the industry sticks with transformers, there are years left of low hanging fruit and incremental improvements before things start slowing.

There doesn't appear to be anything that these AI models cannot do, in principle, given sufficient data and compute. They've figured out multimodality and complex integration, self play for arbitrary domains, and lots of high-cost longer term paradigms that will push capabilities forwards for at least 2 decades in conjunction with Moore's law.

Things are going to continue getting better, faster, and weirder. If someone is making confident predictions beyond those claims, it's probably their job.

Re: GPT-4.1 in the API

#266
i've recently set claude 3.7 as the default option for customers when they start new chats in my app. this was a recent change, and i'm feeling good about it. supporting multiple providers can be a nightmare for customer service, especially when it comes to billing and handling response quality queries. with so many choices from just one provider, it simplifies things significantly. curious about how openai manages customer service internally.

Re: GPT-4.1 in the API

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By "broken" you mean it doesn't use the latest and greatest hot trend, right? Or does it literally not work?

It has been really frustrating learning Godot (or any new technology you are not familiar with) 4.4.x with GPT4o or even worse, with custom GPT which use older GPT4turbo. As you are new in the field, it kinda doesn't make sense to pick an older version. It would be better if there was no data than incorrect data. You literally have to include the version number on every prompt and even that doesn't guarantee a right…

hey- curious what your experience has been like learning godot w/ LLM tooling.

are you doing 3d? The 3D tutorial ecosystem is very GUI heavy and I have had major problems trying to get godot to do anything 3D

Re: GPT-4.1 in the API

#269

> They feature a refreshed knowledge cutoff of June 2024. As opposed to Gemini 2.5 Pro having cutoff of Jan 2025. Honestly this feels underwhelming and surprising. Especially if you're coding with frameworks with breaking changes, this can hurt you.

It's definitely an issue. Even the simplest use case of "create React app with Vite and Tailwind" is broken with these models right now because they're not up to date.

Maybe LLMs will be the forcing function to finally slow down the crazy pace of changing (and breaking) things in JavaScript land.

Re: GPT-4.1 in the API

#270
post #41

ChatGPT currently recommends I use o3-mini-high ("great at coding and logic") when I start a code conversation with 4o. I don't understand why the comparison in the announcement talks so much about comparing with 4o's coding abilities to 4.1. Wouldn't the relevant comparison be to o3-mini-high? 4.1 costs a lot more than o3-mini-high, so this seems like a pertinent thing for them to have addressed here. Maybe I am mis…

> I don't understand why the comparison in the announcement talks so much about comparing with 4o's coding abilities to 4.1. Wouldn't the relevant comparison be to o3-mini-high?

There are tons of comparisons to o3-mini-high in the linked article.

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