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Googler... ex-Googler

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Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#261

Post by apwell23 »

apexalpha wrote: post #149
abdj8 wrote: post #110

Layoffs are a difficult thing for employees and their managers. I have seen people (one was a VP of Engineering) escorted out of the building, sent in a cab to home along with a security guard (this was in India), not allowed access to computer or talk with other employees. But, recently have had a very different experience. The current company I work for announced 30% layoffs. The list was made public within one hou…

Weird, as someone from Europe I've never experience anything else. Layoffs here are always done in conjunction with the unions. People are moved to different jobs, helped with training etc... Only in very critical jobs they'd walk you out immediately but then you still get the pay.

[flagged]

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#262

Post by EdwardDiego »

abdj8 wrote: post #110

Layoffs are a difficult thing for employees and their managers. I have seen people (one was a VP of Engineering) escorted out of the building, sent in a cab to home along with a security guard (this was in India), not allowed access to computer or talk with other employees. But, recently have had a very different experience. The current company I work for announced 30% layoffs. The list was made public within one hou…

God I love living in a country with employment law that recognises the massive disparity between employers and employees.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#263

Post by ncruces »

SR2Z wrote: post #64
klooney wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> LIFO principle for layoffs, newest employees are let go first. Stack ranking not possible Newer employees often see this as incredibly unfair.

Because it is unfair. It just tends to benefit people employed today

It's not about being fair to the individual, it's about producing a better outcome for society. In this case, saving money on welfare (that's also in great measured pooled across society, not an individual account).

Parents being able to take sick days to care for their kids, or 50yo being able to take leaves to take care of their dying 80yo parents are also unfair to kids in their 20s just starting out.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#264

Post by ignoramous »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #174
abdj8 wrote: post #110

Layoffs are a difficult thing for employees and their managers. I have seen people (one was a VP of Engineering) escorted out of the building, sent in a cab to home along with a security guard (this was in India), not allowed access to computer or talk with other employees. But, recently have had a very different experience. The current company I work for announced 30% layoffs. The list was made public within one hou…

Wow, the last paragraph is really touching. That comment from the CEO is brilliant: "I trusted them yesterday, I trust them today." That will stay with me for some time!

> I trusted them yesterday, I trust them today.

The problem is, before the layoffs, the employee may have felt they had an obligation to do right by the company. Once they're fired, it may no longer be the case. Some may very well become spiteful, act on their vengeance, & seek immediate retribution.

The risk posed by an employee going rouge is what most CEOs are playing for, especially as in GP's case, for a company as large as Google, where they need to plan for all possible failures and scenarios, some of which may or may not have happened before hand.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#265

Post by windward »

sudomateo wrote: post #116

> But I was also immediately ripped away from my calendar, docs, code, and more. Layoffs are never easy. I've been through a few myself and it really takes the wind out of your sails. That being said, this sentence made me pause a bit. None of these things mentioned are actually yours. They are the property of Google. One thing that helped me immensely in my career is understanding that my relationship with a company…

>I recommended learning how to separate your value from your employer.

Not just that: separate it from your career. Ensure that you and others would still value yourself even if you weren't receiving top decile income for an easy job. A misanthropic software developer is begrudgingly useful; a plain misanthrope isn't even mediocre.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#266

Post by eloisant »

hieKVj2ECC wrote: post #152
apexalpha wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird, as someone from Europe I've never experience anything else. Layoffs here are always done in conjunction with the unions. People are moved to different jobs, helped with training etc... Only in very critical jobs they'd walk you out immediately but then you still get the pay.

I have seen this in EU too

In which country?

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#267

Post by eloisant »

ignoramous wrote: post #264
throwaway2037 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, the last paragraph is really touching. That comment from the CEO is brilliant: "I trusted them yesterday, I trust them today." That will stay with me for some time!

> I trusted them yesterday, I trust them today. The problem is, before the layoffs, the employee may have felt they had an obligation to do right by the company. Once they're fired, it may no longer be the case. Some may very well become spiteful, act on their vengeance, & seek immediate retribution. The risk posed by an employee going rouge is what most CEOs are playing for, especially as in GP's case, for a company…

In France you can't layoff people on the spot, there is a 3 months notice. And I've yet to hear about employees going rogue.

Maybe in US laid off employees can go rogue because they're treated like shit in the process?

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#268

Post by windward »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #148

I experienced something similar at Nokia around the time things were starting to go bad (due to competition from Google and Apple). I got caught up in one of the earlier layoff rounds. As I've been able to reconstruct since then what happened was roughly that: - I got a excellent performance review and a small raise. All good, keep on doing what you are doing! I was pretty happy. - Nokia started to prepare for layoff…

>job security is an illusion

It really is. Even government and blue chips aren't safe. In fact, those are where you'll find it's the most disconnected from your own agency.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#269

Post by windward »

ivraatiems wrote: post #9

The reality of one's lack of value to one's own employer is often baffling. It makes you wonder how anyone manages to stay employed at all, since apparently everyone is replicable and unimportant. I have been through layoffs where other people on my team, doing the same job I did approximately as well, got laid off. No explanation given for why them and not me. And it could happen to me at any time. It doesn't matter…

You're right but our current model of society depends on there being people who don't ask the same question.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#270

Post by iainmerrick »

grandempire wrote: post #192
iainmerrick wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it’s not wise or safe to let layed off individuals roam around the office. I don’t really buy this. I take it you’re worried about vengeful ex-employees abusing their access privileges to break stuff on the way out? It seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Probably some people would feel vengeful if you do shitty things to them like removing all their access and firing them with no notice whatsoever. Bad employees c…

> I take it you’re worried about vengeful ex-employees abusing their access privileges to break stuff on the way out? In extreme cases. But also just sowing discontent. Looking to grab value they think they are owed. Generally lots of people who are upset and probably feel mistreated and have very little to lose. I actually think there is a small but real chance of violence as people like OP feel like their identity…

lots of people who are upset and probably feel mistreated [...] people like OP feel like their identity and way of life is threatened

But they feel like that because they're being ghosted by the company! Suddenly cut off, with no way to tie up loose ends and say goodbye to people on the way out. That's the mistreatment. If you don't mistreat them like that, maybe people won't feel mistreated or threatened.

I don't have tons of experience with layoffs. In the case where people in my team were directly affected, the company did not summarily cut off access overnight (they couldn't legally, as this was in the UK). It was completely fine and everybody was friendly and civil. It helps that the severance package was very generous, and admittedly the job market was good at the time so people would have been less worried about finding their next job.

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