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Pentagon to terminate $5.1B in IT contracts with Accenture, Deloitte

reuters.com

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Re: Pentagon to terminate $5.1B in IT contracts with Accenture, Deloitte

#261

Post by zer8k »

patcon wrote: post #233
callamdelaney wrote: post #64

Now the UK should swiftly follow suit in sacking these cowboys. The taxpayer is being charged extortionate rates in some cases for fresh graduates who know effectively nothing at all about what they talk about. At the same time, we should increase salary banding for technical roles to the market rate. We will get the experience we need for much, much less.

> for fresh graduates who know effectively nothing at all about what they talk about Assuming they are akin to grad students, these "fresh graduates" likely have more intersectional knowledge than long-time deep domain experts. I've worked in grant funding landscape, and one of the biggest challenges is that: 1. Experts have deep knowledge, but don't keep up outside their field, and yet have the most power in distrib…

> Assuming they are akin to grad students, these "fresh graduates" likely have more intersectional knowledge than long-time deep domain experts. I've worked in grant funding landscape, and one of the biggest challenges is that

This is generous. I have worked with these consultants. These aren't mom-and-pop startup consultancies. These guys charge extortionate rates and provide bottom-barrel talent. One agency, who will not be named, sweet talks you with product managers and then exports 90% of the technical labor overseas to the lowest bidder. You pay expert prices for this. Even their MBAs are tacit manipulators. I remember one project before we canned them - the PMs were constantly revising their "go to market strategy" conveniently around the time the contract would be up for negotiation.

> So I'd argue that keep an abundance of "fresh grads" isn't just cynical cost-cutting, but part of the secret sauce of why these big orgs generally operate as effective institutional ecologies

Realistically, new-grads are willing to work 14x7 and shower and sleep in the office. That's why.

These consultancies are a malignant cancer on business and the health of their employees.

Re: Pentagon to terminate $5.1B in IT contracts with Accenture, Deloitte

#262

Post by Ziggy_Zaggy »

bitmasher9 wrote: post #145
aantix wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salary banding doesn’t attract the talent you need. Maybe, good enough? E.g. Who would contribute to open source, speak at conferences, write blog articles, go above and beyond to outwardly contribute, only to be grouped with others to make the same? Terrible deal.

You can solve this by either having wide bands or by preferentially promoting those that make extra contributions. Just increasing the salary band would do a lot to attract more talent, which is a good-not-perfect solution. Last time I checked going to work at a federal job would have cut my total compensation in half, but if it was just a 20% cut I would have looked deeper.

The federal service DOES have a pay-banding system (AcqDemo) that CAN support the extra compensation but it's currently NOT being adequately implemented. If the system actually implemented the next pay-band to be cover roughly pay-grade that covers the $100k to $250k income level that wasn't MGT focused and instead technical "do the work in a team setting" focused (NOT tech director - useless position - should be eliminated).

Also, the current pay-pool system is NOT effective bc MGT is NOT able and/or willing to fight for their employees who work to get a reasonable pay-bump and instead the game is always "can't pay my employees more than me or my MGT buddies".

The federal service culture insists on paying MGT positions more than technical higher-talent positions in over 80% of cases.

Re: Pentagon to terminate $5.1B in IT contracts with Accenture, Deloitte

#263

Post by toomuchtodo »

timschmidt wrote: post #248
toomuchtodo wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t have to convince you. The only people who matter are government decisionmakers who are unwilling to be held hostage by him. It doesn’t matter how good you are if you can’t be trusted. The premium you pay a non SpaceX launch provider is so that the rug isn’t pulled on you. Do you want to go to space when you want? Or only when he says you can? Cheaper is not always better.

Friend, when your argument evaporates in the presence of the financial numbers and you revert to character assassination, you might be identifying yourself among the untrustworthy. Bad faith arguments really undermine any trust I could build for you through this media. > The premium you pay a non SpaceX launch provider is so that the rug isn’t pulled on you. Cheaper is not always better. Again, when one of them manag…

He assassinated his own character, my statements are simply observations of how he did it and what’s left of it. My apologies we see character and who you can trust differently.

https://electrek.co/2025/04/10/cracks-are-forming-in-elon-mu...

https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-how-elon-musk-is-spreading-...

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-lists/elon-musk...

https://elonmusk.today/

Re: Pentagon to terminate $5.1B in IT contracts with Accenture, Deloitte

#264

Post by michaelbuckbee »

wonderwonder wrote: post #260
QuantumGood wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

96 of 301 projects complete, 58 in progress • https://www.project2025.observer/

Whether you support it or not, for government, that's really some incredible efficiency. almost 1/3 complete in 100 days

Easier to destroy than create.

Re: Pentagon to terminate $5.1B in IT contracts with Accenture, Deloitte

#265

Post by parthdesai »

callamdelaney wrote: post #64

Now the UK should swiftly follow suit in sacking these cowboys. The taxpayer is being charged extortionate rates in some cases for fresh graduates who know effectively nothing at all about what they talk about. At the same time, we should increase salary banding for technical roles to the market rate. We will get the experience we need for much, much less.

If you're from UK, you should read the book "When Mckinsey Comes to Town[0]", it has a chapter on how it fucked up NHS.

[0] - https://www.amazon.com/When-McKinsey-Comes-Town-Consulting/d...

Re: Pentagon to terminate $5.1B in IT contracts with Accenture, Deloitte

#266

Post by atomicnumber3 »

patcon wrote: post #233
callamdelaney wrote: post #64

Now the UK should swiftly follow suit in sacking these cowboys. The taxpayer is being charged extortionate rates in some cases for fresh graduates who know effectively nothing at all about what they talk about. At the same time, we should increase salary banding for technical roles to the market rate. We will get the experience we need for much, much less.

> for fresh graduates who know effectively nothing at all about what they talk about Assuming they are akin to grad students, these "fresh graduates" likely have more intersectional knowledge than long-time deep domain experts. I've worked in grant funding landscape, and one of the biggest challenges is that: 1. Experts have deep knowledge, but don't keep up outside their field, and yet have the most power in distrib…

> Assuming they are akin to grad students

I think that's the problem. They're not. I know some folks who went to consulting shops like this. They're invariably 2 types of people: people who got very high GPAs but cannot actually code a working program, and people who got pushed into the degree for various reasons but have zero passion. Note I'm not saying you need *passion* to be in this industry. But these people literally did not care if what they were doing was programming or washing dishes (beyond the pay delta and their parents (financier's) opinions).

And to some degree that's the point of these places. They take in the 40% of each CS class that can't fizzbuzz, put them through an internal bootcamp in their generic crud framework they fork every time they get a new customer, then unleash them on the world, either as "staff augmentation" or doing contract work.

Re: Pentagon to terminate $5.1B in IT contracts with Accenture, Deloitte

#267

Post by starkparker »

wonderwonder wrote: post #260
QuantumGood wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

96 of 301 projects complete, 58 in progress • https://www.project2025.observer/

Whether you support it or not, for government, that's really some incredible efficiency. almost 1/3 complete in 100 days

I mean, let's not act like firing people and cancelling contracts without caring if you get sued or break things is substantially more difficult than, say, closing browser tabs

Re: Pentagon to terminate $5.1B in IT contracts with Accenture, Deloitte

#268

Post by CityOfThrowaway »

tw04 wrote: post #229
heisenbit wrote: post #217

Consultants are misused if employed on a constant basis instead of employing enough senior staff directly. There are well known drivers on both sides that tend to promote such an unhealthy setup. What is concerning at the US government is not cutting consulting but at the same time cutting staff and on top creating a hostile environment for senior staff. This is unprecedented and is not something one would do in the…

The ONLY time this occurs in the private sector is when corporate raiders are trying to extract every last penny from a business they plan on killing. Unsurprisingly this follows directly with project 2025s goal of dismantling the federal government and privatizing what departments aren’t filled with party loyalists at the expense of the average US citizen.

The data on hostile takeovers by "corporate raiders" very much does not support the characterization here.

The category of PE firms you're talking about buy companies that are deeply troubled. Generally due to the management's unwillingness to accept reality and make change, the company is heading towards oblivion one way or another.

Perhaps surprisingly, the vast majority of takeover targets wind up as net job creators on a 5-10 year time horizons. That's despite the fact that they do usually start by divesting assets that don't make sense and laying off non-productive employees. But divested assets aren't generally killed – they are usually sold to somebody else who often does something better with it.

Also, companies conduct massive downsizing and rationalization all the time when in distress, and not only when they are taken over by a "corporate raider".

In the private markets, these actors are definitely distasteful. They do cleanup work that feels bad, and they often get rich doing it. But they also serve a necessary role in the markets.

Companies that are egregiously misusing capital and resources are a drag on the economy. It's a bad thing for there to be a bunch of zombie companies holding onto assets that could be used in better ways.

A more generous framing would be something like a home flipper. They buy properties that are a mess, clean it up real good, throw out the old stuff for recycling, install some modern appliances, and sell it to somebody else.

One of my laments is that there is no automatic equivalent force in the government. Agencies grow and grow, projects grow and grow, all totally decoupled from whether they are achieving any progress whatsoever towards the agency's mission.

I'm not defending the specific actions of this administration (for which I simply don't know enough), but it is refreshing to see the government rummaging through its mess and cutting stuff that is irrational, corrupt, and not serving the mission.

Re: Pentagon to terminate $5.1B in IT contracts with Accenture, Deloitte

#269

Post by whimsicalism »

azemetre wrote: post #219
whimsicalism wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the US has at-will employment, save it with the hyperbole. There are plenty of non-unionized jobs people would love to have. Collective bargaining against private actors is fine. There should be no collective bargaining against the democratic will of the people, any more than some random group of federal workers has veto power over law passed bu congress. It is simply not how democracy works.

Poppycock. Being able to collectively bargain against the government is more than legal, it should be encouraged. They don't have veto power over Congress, it's about allowing workers to dictate the terms they seem fair for themselves against the US government. If Congress and the executive branch can't agree with labor terms with workers at the table, that's bad. Not having unionized federal workers is way way way w…

If you just want to talk about outcomes, there are a number of studies showing the negative impact public sector unions have on outcomes - for instance there is clear research causally linking union penetration in school districts to decline in student outcomes in Wisconsin. [0]

> One thing I am curious about, how do you feel about police unions?

Not everyone fits into two political buckets. I am extremely anti for the reasons above as well as additional reasons particular to police unions. I also favor big tax hikes, banning guns, and higher spending on housing subsidy, snap, etc.

I just also think governments should be capable, student outcomes are important, the interest of voters are greater than that of govt employees, etc.

0: https://morganfoy.github.io/papers/Foy_JMP.pdf

Re: Pentagon to terminate $5.1B in IT contracts with Accenture, Deloitte

#270

Post by timschmidt »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #263
timschmidt wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Friend, when your argument evaporates in the presence of the financial numbers and you revert to character assassination, you might be identifying yourself among the untrustworthy. Bad faith arguments really undermine any trust I could build for you through this media. > The premium you pay a non SpaceX launch provider is so that the rug isn’t pulled on you. Cheaper is not always better. Again, when one of them manag…

He assassinated his own character, my statements are simply observations of how he did it and what’s left of it. My apologies we see character and who you can trust differently. https://electrek.co/2025/04/10/cracks-are-forming-in-elon-mu... https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-how-elon-musk-is-spreading-... https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-lists/elon-musk... https://elonmusk.today/

You are doing humanity no favors arguing about it like this.
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