This is a before/after moment for image generation. A simple example is the background images on a ton of (mediocre) music youtube channels. They almost all use AI generated images that are full of nonsense the closer you look. Jazz channels will feature coffee shops with garbled text on the menu and furniture blending together. I bet all of that disappears over the next few months. On another note, and perhaps other…
No elephants: Breakthroughs in image generation
261–270 of 373 posts
Re: No elephants: Breakthroughs in image generation
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
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* You cannot ethically use a tool that was produced by appropriating the labor of millions of people without consent. You are a bad person if you use it. * I disagree. When you publish your work, I can't copy it, but I can do nearly anything else I want to with it. I don't need your consent to learn from your work. I can study hundreds of paintings, learn from them, teaching myself to paint in a similar style. Copyri…
Maybe because AI is ultimately nothing but a complicated compression algorithm, and people should really, really stop anthropomorphizing it.
Re: No elephants: Breakthroughs in image generation
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You would then be relying on ... More likely trade secrets, NDAs, non-competes, and increasingly invasive DRM. In addition to the direct financial incentive, part of the logic behind IP law is to foster a more open market because that should be to the benefit of society at large in multiple ways. Patents, for example, ensure that at least some minimal description of the process gets published for others to take ins…
> More likely trade secrets, NDAs, non-competes, and increasingly invasive DRM. These are all also creatures of the law. If there was no copyright there would be no Digital Millennium Copyright Act. In many cases they can't work, e.g. because of the analog hole or because the mechanism of operation is observable to anyone who buys the product. The incentives to uncover those things are also much stronger in modern da…
Careful not to confuse illegal with unable.
> [can't work because] the mechanism of operation is observable to anyone who buys the product.
That was my point about increasingly invasive DRM. Without IP law, the only way for large swaths of industry to sustain themselves would be to deal exclusively on extensively secured platforms. Imagine a scenario where all paid services (software, streaming, and quite literally everything else) was only available on hardware attested devices rooted with only one or a few players.
In the hypothetical scenario where it is explicitly legal to copy any binary that you gain possession of (ie copyright doesn't exist) I think that's what we would see.
> If someone had a secret video encoding strategy today, some hobbyists would reverse engineer it and post it on the internet.
Which is why patents exist. When companies decide how much to invest in what this is taken into account.
Notably due to the lack of popularity (and thus lack of adoption) of patent encumbered video and audio standards, anyone trying to make a direct profit effectively dropped out years ago. At this point it's driven by behemoths that realize significant downstream cost savings.
> Have you read a modern patent? They're inscrutable
Yes, I'm aware. Consider how much worse things could be though. No hint, every employee who worked on it under both NDA and non-compete. Imagine how much more difficult the labor market would be to navigate if the government didn't intervene to prevent overbearing terms in such a scenario. Consider what all of this would do to market efficiency.
My point was never to disagree with your broad strokes (that the free market is perfectly capable of functioning in the absence of IP law). Rather it was to point out that despite all the downsides, IP law does clearly offer some collective benefits by significantly reducing incentives that would otherwise drive greedy individuals to act against common interests.
Re: No elephants: Breakthroughs in image generation
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
My problem with finding enjoyment in this is the same problem I have when using cheat codes in games: the doing part is the fun part, getting to the end or just permutations of the end gets really boring.
Trying to draw a squirrel when you have no artistic talents or experience is not the fun part. I've produced my own music recordings in the past and I've hired musicians to play the instruments that I cannot. Having exasperated recording engineers watch my 5,000th take on a drum fill that I absolutely cannot play is not the fun part. Sitting behind the glass and watching my vision come to life from a really good drum…
Is having the ai spit out idea after idea fun in the same way for you?
Re: No elephants: Breakthroughs in image generation
#265Re: No elephants: Breakthroughs in image generation
#266Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most of the professionals in this industry actively despise this technology.
I doubt they will have a choice given the price difference. This is arguably a good thing because if production cost drops it should mean either higher quality or more content.
Re: No elephants: Breakthroughs in image generation
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
> More likely trade secrets, NDAs, non-competes, and increasingly invasive DRM. These are all also creatures of the law. If there was no copyright there would be no Digital Millennium Copyright Act. In many cases they can't work, e.g. because of the analog hole or because the mechanism of operation is observable to anyone who buys the product. The incentives to uncover those things are also much stronger in modern da…
> In many cases they can't work, e.g. because of the analog hole Careful not to confuse illegal with unable. > [can't work because] the mechanism of operation is observable to anyone who buys the product. That was my point about increasingly invasive DRM. Without IP law, the only way for large swaths of industry to sustain themselves would be to deal exclusively on extensively secured platforms. Imagine a scenario wh…
We already have some content where this has been attempted. That content is on the piracy sites. And that's when breaking the DRM and piracy sites are both illegal.
They simply wouldn't use a business model where they first make something and then try to charge people for it after. Instead you might have a subscription service, but the subscription is patronage, i.e. you want them to keep producing content and if enough people feel the same way, they make enough to keep doing it. But the content they release is available to everyone.
> every employee who worked on it under both NDA and non-compete. Imagine how much more difficult the labor market would be to navigate if the government didn't intervene to prevent overbearing terms in such a scenario. Consider what all of this would do to market efficiency.
The assumption is that such NDAs would be enforceable. What if they're not?
> Rather it was to point out that despite all the downsides, IP law does clearly offer some collective benefits by significantly reducing incentives that would otherwise drive greedy individuals to act against common interests.
The greedy individuals could be addressed by banning their attempts to reconstitute copyright through thug behavior. The real question is, would we be better off without it, if some things wouldn't be created?
Likely the optimal balance is close to the original copyright terms, i.e. you get 14 years and there is none of this anti-circumvention nonsense which in practice is ineffective at its ostensible purpose and is only used to monopolize consumer devices to try to exclude works that compete with the major incumbents. But the existing system is so far out of whack that it's not clear it's even better than nothing.
Re: No elephants: Breakthroughs in image generation
#268This is a before/after moment for image generation. A simple example is the background images on a ton of (mediocre) music youtube channels. They almost all use AI generated images that are full of nonsense the closer you look. Jazz channels will feature coffee shops with garbled text on the menu and furniture blending together. I bet all of that disappears over the next few months. On another note, and perhaps other…
Image generation is still very slow. If it generated many images instantly like Google’s image search, it would be a lot more fun to use, and we would learn to use it more effectively with practice.
Re: No elephants: Breakthroughs in image generation
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
* You cannot ethically use a tool that was produced by appropriating the labor of millions of people without consent. You are a bad person if you use it. * I disagree. When you publish your work, I can't copy it, but I can do nearly anything else I want to with it. I don't need your consent to learn from your work. I can study hundreds of paintings, learn from them, teaching myself to paint in a similar style. Copyri…
If I wrote a program that chose an image at random from 1000 base images, you’d agree that the program doesn’t create anything new. If I added some random color changes, it would still be derivative. Every incremental change I make to the program to make it more sophisticated leaves its outputs just as derivative as before the change.
Re: No elephants: Breakthroughs in image generation
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think there's consensus around that idea. Lots of people (myself included) feel that copyright is already vastly overreaching, and that AI represents forward progress for the proliferation of art in society (its crap today, but digital cameras were crap in 2007 and look where they are now). Its also not clear for example that Studio Ghibli lost by having their art style plastered all over the internet. I went…
> Its also not clear for example that Studio Ghibli lost by having their art style plastered all over the internet. I went home and watched a Ghibli film that week, as I'm sure many others did as well. Their revenue is probably up quite a bit right now? This sounds like a rewording of "You won't get paid, but this is a great opportunity for you because you'll get exposure".