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An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

theaiunderwriter.substack.com

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Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#261

Post by codedokode »

r3trohack3r wrote: post #246
eaglelamp wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we are going to have a general discussion about copyright reform at a national level, I'm all for it. If we are going to let billion dollar corporations break the law to make even more money and invent legal fictions after the fact to protect them, I'm completely against it. Training a model is not equivalent to training a human. Freedom of information for a mountain of graphics cards in a privately owned data cen…

You’re setting court precedent that will apply equally to OpenAI as it does to the llama.cpp and stable diffusion models running on your own graphics card.

Can stable diffusion be created without using copyrighted content? Maybe we should have some exemption for non-commercial research but definitely not for commercial exploitation or generating copyrighted images using open-source models.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#262

Post by codedokode »

raspyberr wrote: post #252
r0s wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not baffling in the least. No matter the extent you believe in the freedom of information, few believe anyone should then be free to profit from someone else's work without attribution. You seem to think it would be okay for disney to market and charge for my own personal original characters and art, claiming them as their own original idea. Why is that?

Yes. I 100% unironically believe that anyone should be able to use anyone else's work royalty/copyright free after 10-20 years instead of 170 in the UK. Could you please justify why 170 years is in any way a reasonable amount of time?

May I ask why you want to use someone's work instead of creating your own?

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#264

Post by codedokode »

philipkglass wrote: post #255
codedokode wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Regardless, the current law would suggest that the infringing action happens at inference time, not training. Zuckerberg downloading a large library of pirated articles does not violate any laws? I think you can get a life sentence for merely posting links to the library.

I think you can get a life sentence for merely posting links to the library. This isn't true in the United States. I would be surprised if it were true in any country. Many people have posted sci-hub links here, and to my knowledge nobody has ever suffered legal problems from it: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Doesn't it count as distribution? I thought DMCA requires to delete links.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#265

Post by idiotsecant »

II2II wrote: post #209
mlsu wrote: post #137

I was really hoping that the conversation around AI art would at least be partially centered on the perhaps now dated "2008 pirate party" idea that intellectual property, the royalty system, the draconian copyright laws that we have today are deeply silly, rooted in a fiction, and used over and over again, primarily by the rich and powerful, to stifle original ideas and hold back cultural innovation. Unfortunately, i…

> That Disney Corp can prevent you from viewing some collection of pixels, because THEY own it A world without copyright is just as problematic as a world with copyright. With copyright, you run into the problem of excessive control. This wasn't too much of a problem in the past. If you bought a book, record, or video recording, you owned that particular copy. You could run into disagreeable situations because you di…

The idea that someone can't use ideas without someone else making money from it is a really, really, radically weird idea and is very new in the history of human society.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#266

Post by asadotzler »

Pet_Ant wrote: post #78
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #45

Obviously a horrible hideous theft machine. One thing I would say, it's interesting to consider what would make this not so obviously bad. Like, we could ask AI to assess the physical attributes of the characters it generated. Then ask it to permute some of those attributes. Generate some random tweaks: ok but brawy, short, and a different descent. Do similarly on some clothing colors. Change the game. Hit the "rando…

> Obviously a horrible hideous theft machine. I hate how it is common to advance a position to just state a conclusion as if it were a fact. You keep repeating the same thing over and over until it seems like a concensus has been reached instead of an actual argument reasoned from first principle. This is no theft here. Any copyright would be flimsier than software patents. I love Studio Ghibli (including $500/seat f…

>it's the heart and the detail that make them what they are. You cannot clone that

You absolutely can and these theft machines are proving that, literally cloning those details with very high precision and fidelity.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#267

Post by mlsu »

rpdillon wrote: post #197
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only people making chairs by hand today are exceptionally well-paid artisanal craft carpenters and/or designers/studios. It's not at all unusual for popular/iconic furniture designs to be copyrighted. Reality is people who invent truly original, useful, desirable things are the most important human beings on the planet. Nothing that makes civilisation what it is has happened without original inventiveness and cre…

This position suggests that there was no progress before we had copyright. I think you're vastly overstating the power of the incentives we've set up to drive creative behavior, and even with your caveats I think you're overstating their efficacy. Copyright and patents have done more to consolidate wealth within middleman industries that aggregate these properties than they have to enrich the actual creatives doing t…

And not only that. People who do make a living producing creative stuff have to constantly monitor themselves for any hint of copyright infringement, because a copyright strike on their channel is existential. Even if the majority of the time the strike was total baloney. It makes it tough to create when you can be three strikesed or demonetized for playing something that sounds like a record label's melody for 20 seconds on your channel.

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#268

Post by photonthug »

r3trohack3r wrote: post #246
eaglelamp wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we are going to have a general discussion about copyright reform at a national level, I'm all for it. If we are going to let billion dollar corporations break the law to make even more money and invent legal fictions after the fact to protect them, I'm completely against it. Training a model is not equivalent to training a human. Freedom of information for a mountain of graphics cards in a privately owned data cen…

You’re setting court precedent that will apply equally to OpenAI as it does to the llama.cpp and stable diffusion models running on your own graphics card.

I don’t know about that, we seem to be so deeply into double standards for this stuff that we’ve forgotten they are double standards. If I aggressively scrape content from anywhere and everywhere ignoring robots.txt and any other terms and conditions, then I’ll probably be punished. Corporate crawlers that are feeding the beast just do this on a massive scale and laugh off all of the complaints, including those from smaller corporations who hire lawyers..

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#269

Post by saurik »

This phenomenon is why I personally get so angry at the license washing that these models are capable of for code: I put out a lot of code as open source... but it is GPL on purpose, as I want your code to be just as free as mine in exchange for getting to use mine. But, now, you're all "I want to build that for myself!" and so you ask an AI and just describe what my project does into the tool... and who is to say it isn't generating something "too close" to my code? Do you even check? If you yourself as a human had first looked at my code, you'd have to be VERY careful to not be accidentally infringing my code... and yet people pretend this AI is somehow not capable of IP theft?!

Re: An image of an archeologist adventurer who wears a hat and uses a bullwhip

#270

Post by Kim_Bruning »

mvdtnz wrote: post #221
mlsu wrote: post #137

I was really hoping that the conversation around AI art would at least be partially centered on the perhaps now dated "2008 pirate party" idea that intellectual property, the royalty system, the draconian copyright laws that we have today are deeply silly, rooted in a fiction, and used over and over again, primarily by the rich and powerful, to stifle original ideas and hold back cultural innovation. Unfortunately, i…

I'm guessing you've never created something of value before. People are entitled to the fruits of their labour and control of their intellectual property.

> I'm guessing you've never created something of value before

That's an interesting speculation. You realize that it could also be turned against you, right? Never a good idea!

So, let's focus on the arguments rather than making assumptions about each other's backgrounds.

> People are entitled to the fruits of their labour and control of their intellectual property.

People are absolutely entitled to the fruits of their labour. The crucial question is whether the current system of 'IP' control – designed for scarcity – is the best way to ensure that, especially when many creators find it hinders more than it helps. That's why many people explore and use other models.

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