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Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

bbc.com

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Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#261

Post by majormajor »

freehorse wrote: post #211
nozzlegear wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A less cynical framing is that the US is a much different culture from European countries, and is massively larger in scale. Depending on the problem, some of their solutions simply can't or don't apply.

Which part here exactly cannot work in the US? I am talking about brushing one's teeth with toothpaste containing fluoride, which sounds as plain simple as possible to me. Is it regular brushing teeth that fails in the US for cultural reasons? Fluoride in the toothpaste? Supervising kids while brushing their teeth to make sure they do not swallow? It is an honest question.

AFAICT most US toothpaste has flouride in it already.

(For now, at least? How long until that gets cracked down on as dangerous?)

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#262

Post by int_19h »

hayst4ck wrote: post #251
lolinder wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What they're referring to is the fact that very few countries in the rest of the world even consider the possibility of adding fluoride to the water supply. It's basically just the US, Australia, and to a much lesser extent Canada. It's not a debate everywhere else because adding fluoride to the water is objectively an unusual thing to do that they just... don't. Presumably they get fluoride other ways.

How many countries actually drink their tap water as their main source of water?

Pretty much the entire Europe, for starters.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#263

Post by nozzlegear »

FireBeyond wrote: post #199
nozzlegear wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A less cynical framing is that the US is a much different culture from European countries, and is massively larger in scale. Depending on the problem, some of their solutions simply can't or don't apply.

This is exactly the framing. "What worked there can't work here", whether it's firearm control, socialized medicine or education, whatever. We're either bigger, or denser, or less dense, or ... essentially whatever suits the argument.

Yes, that's my point. We are literally different people with different cultures, values and problems. Case in point: the firearm control you mentioned. I won't get in a gun control debate here, I have my own complicated views on the matter, but it's an undisputed fact that Americans have a right to own guns (maybe with limitations, maybe not) and many Americans deeply cherish that right. There is no gun control solution we can take from Europe that you could apply to the US, it's simply not compatible with our culture, not to mention our own Bill of Rights. It's not a bad thing to recognize that.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#264

Post by nine_k »

_heimdall wrote: post #249
nozzlegear wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A less cynical framing is that the US is a much different culture from European countries, and is massively larger in scale. Depending on the problem, some of their solutions simply can't or don't apply.

There shouldn't be a scale issue with regards to fluoride in the water. It is either scientifically shown to be beneficial or it isn't, scale and geography likely have nothing to do with it.

Does it not depend on the chemical composition of local water? The US is vast, geologically diverse, and water quality varies hugely across it. Denmark can likely make a decision that's good for the entire country.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#265

Post by saalweachter »

dataflow wrote: post #54
ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you compile this list? Asking some LLM service? From the first link: > It is important to note that there were insufficient data to determine if the low fluoride level of 0.7 mg/L currently recommended for U.S. community water supplies has a negative effect on children’s IQ It doesn't seem in favor of this?

Regardless of where they got the list (edit: which I do think is a fair question)... > the first link [...] doesn't seem in favor of this? To me that falls under "the best evidence [available] in favor of this." It's not great, but it's not nothing; it's certainly something in favor. After all.. I guess I don't know about you, but I feel like if someone told me dose X of something is toxic, I would not feel comfortab…

I mean, technically our atmosphere gives us oxygen at 35% of a toxic dose/concentration.

Granted, 35% < 50%, but not really that much less.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#266

Post by ddulaney »

ruph123 wrote: post #260
jdminhbg wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I love about this comment is that one person thought "of course every other country just does the right thing when the US doesn't" and posted it, and then a bunch of other people thought "of course every other country just does the right thing when the US doesn't" and upvoted it, and not a single one of them thought to check what the "right thing" is. Meanwhile, back here on Earth-1, there's no right thing, and…

The world map is hilarious. Germany sure does not look like this anymore (and this is not the GDR split but goes further back). Maybe they should update this. Draws into the question, the whole data.

The map is drawing Germany and Czechia both with the same white color as the border.

Unfortunate that the color scheme is confusing, but not any weird borders.

You can see the uncolored map here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BlankMap-World6-Equirec...

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#267

Post by varenc »

zmgsabst wrote: post #235
christianqchung wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Radioactive isotopes in nuclear fuel: do not ingest. Radioactive isotopes in banana: consume away. Understand now? I'm not even defending anything other than how two things that vaguely appear contradictory, are in fact, not.

I don’t. Because your banana example doesn’t have additives meant to be reactive — so is unlike adding fluoride to water at levels which impact dental health.

It's the concentration that matters. Toothpaste has over 1000x the concentration of fluoride vs 0.7mg/L as tap water. Many well water sources have naturally occurring fluoride that exceeds the additive levels.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#268

Post by [deleted] »

saalweachter wrote: post #265
dataflow wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of where they got the list (edit: which I do think is a fair question)... > the first link [...] doesn't seem in favor of this? To me that falls under "the best evidence [available] in favor of this." It's not great, but it's not nothing; it's certainly something in favor. After all.. I guess I don't know about you, but I feel like if someone told me dose X of something is toxic, I would not feel comfortab…

I mean, technically our atmosphere gives us oxygen at 35% of a toxic dose/concentration. Granted, 35% < 50%, but not really that much less.

[deleted]

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#269

Post by decimalenough »

ruph123 wrote: post #260
jdminhbg wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I love about this comment is that one person thought "of course every other country just does the right thing when the US doesn't" and posted it, and then a bunch of other people thought "of course every other country just does the right thing when the US doesn't" and upvoted it, and not a single one of them thought to check what the "right thing" is. Meanwhile, back here on Earth-1, there's no right thing, and…

The world map is hilarious. Germany sure does not look like this anymore (and this is not the GDR split but goes further back). Maybe they should update this. Draws into the question, the whole data.

Both non-fluoridating countries and country borders are white, so it's not that Germany is drawn wrong, but that that countries near Germany (Czechia, Netherlands, Luxembourg) look like they're part of the same white blob.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#270

Post by dataflow »

saalweachter wrote: post #265
dataflow wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of where they got the list (edit: which I do think is a fair question)... > the first link [...] doesn't seem in favor of this? To me that falls under "the best evidence [available] in favor of this." It's not great, but it's not nothing; it's certainly something in favor. After all.. I guess I don't know about you, but I feel like if someone told me dose X of something is toxic, I would not feel comfortab…

I mean, technically our atmosphere gives us oxygen at 35% of a toxic dose/concentration. Granted, 35% < 50%, but not really that much less.

Yes, this completely demolished my argument.
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