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Most AI value will come from broad automation, not from R & D

epoch.ai

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Re: Most AI value will come from broad automation, not from R & D

#261

Post by dragontamer »

scarface_74 wrote: post #259
dragontamer wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But everyone should be able to own a home? No. Do you seriously want to turn this discussion into lower-class rental / apartment discussion? Okay, fine. Lets go there. https://ipropertymanagement.com/research/average-rent-by-yea... Average rent in 1980 was $243/month. Average rent in 2025 is $1397/month. For those who cannot afford a home, life has gotten worse. For those who _can_ afford a home, their life has got…

Okay, so what do you propose? Rent control? That is going to decrease supply. Tariffs to encourage manufacturing in America? That’s just going to make things less affordable. But, rural America consistently votes for politicians and people who are trying to get rid of services they need the most. They are getting exactly what they are voting for and cheering right now. They are actively opposed to programs that would…

Let's start with just agreeing that the wage gap and wealth inequality is a bad thing.

Which is all I wanted to say in the root post. I'm not gonna get gish galloped off topic any further.

Re: Most AI value will come from broad automation, not from R & D

#262

Post by scarface_74 »

achierius wrote: post #225
scarface_74 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And those same people who want their “forever home” and aren’t willing to move to where the jobs are unemployed and underemployed. I want a million dollars a year income. No one owes me that. Move to where the jobs are. I moved from my hometown in south GA the week I graduated from college because there were no jobs.

You can't both tout status-quo economic figures and then point at hypothetical alternatives. If people did as you say and took those lower-paying jobs, then the average person would be less well off -- perhaps closer to the experienced reality for many.

Take what lower paying jobs? I am saying they need to move to where the jobs are. Do those jobs require an education? Yes.

Maybe rural America should stop voting for politicians who are opposed to affordable college education (or trade school) and student loan forgiveness.

Re: Most AI value will come from broad automation, not from R & D

#263

Post by scarface_74 »

dragontamer wrote: post #261
scarface_74 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, so what do you propose? Rent control? That is going to decrease supply. Tariffs to encourage manufacturing in America? That’s just going to make things less affordable. But, rural America consistently votes for politicians and people who are trying to get rid of services they need the most. They are getting exactly what they are voting for and cheering right now. They are actively opposed to programs that would…

Let's start with just agreeing that the wage gap and wealth inequality is a bad thing. Which is all I wanted to say in the root post. I'm not gonna get gish galloped off topic any further.

It’s a “bad thing” that over half of America wants (and a majority of poorer Americans) as they cheer on two billionaires that are gutting the safety net they need the most.

So they must be okay with it.

Re: Most AI value will come from broad automation, not from R & D

#264

Post by asdf6969 »

tkjef wrote: post #252
asdf6969 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes there just isn’t a solution or it’s not the right time. That’s what bitching is good for. Imagine being the world’s most dedicated republican in 1750s France. You could analyze the state of the world and everything required to fix it but no matter what you do there’s still decades of feudalism left and feudalism fucking sucks. That’s where we are today and these bandaid solutions like making “better” compan…

that sucks. i just quit my job cuz i was pissed about a lot. but we can move to new feudal leaders or literally become a feudal leader ourself. America baby! Is it easy? nope. neither was getting a tech job or rising and surviving in it. but some of us do and some of us don’t. anyone interested in some cold blooded american history from the mid-1800s should check out American Primeval on netflix. i really enjoyed it.…

> we can move to new feudal leaders

Working on it

I love history. It’s a great cope to see how people can live fulfilling lives under completely different conditions from the standard 2025 life path. Maybe I will check it out :)

Re: Most AI value will come from broad automation, not from R & D

#265

Post by ToucanLoucan »

scarface_74 wrote: post #263
dragontamer wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's start with just agreeing that the wage gap and wealth inequality is a bad thing. Which is all I wanted to say in the root post. I'm not gonna get gish galloped off topic any further.

It’s a “bad thing” that over half of America wants (and a majority of poorer Americans) as they cheer on two billionaires that are gutting the safety net they need the most. So they must be okay with it.

I swear I have said this like ten times on this website since the election, but once again, since apparently people still don't get this:

Trump won the electoral and popular votes with 312 (58%) of the former and 77,303,568 (49.81%) of the latter, which supports saying "over half" compared to Harris' 226 (42%) of the former and 75,019,230 (48.34%) of the latter. However the population of the United States is 340.1 million of which 244.6 million are voting eligible. Some quick back-of-napkin math then will tell you that while Trump took both the popular and electoral votes enough to win, that victory represents at best the will of approximately 31% of the eligible voters. And, that's strictly the popular vote, which doesn't actually win the election. Democrats struggle in every election because of decades of meddling on the part of Republicans with regard to how electoral votes are awarded and calculated, gerrymandering in every state, anti-voter, anti-minority policies that disenfranchise people on an industrial scale from the right to vote they're entitled, etc. etc. etc.

And you can say "well the Democrats should be working harder to undo it!" and I totally agree, but between the raw numbers on the ground, the well-documented Southern Strategy that has turned formerly pro-labor and progressive swathes of America into hard right strongholds via churches, and the various culture wars that have utterly melted American's brains to a great degree spearheaded by rest-in-piss Rush Limbaugh and the rest of the reactionary media sphere he helped weld into being, it is not remotely a fair statement to say that "over half of America voted for this knowing what would happen." Some did, for sure. Not half, not even fucking close.

Re: Most AI value will come from broad automation, not from R & D

#266

Post by danaris »

tkjef wrote: post #169
elcritch wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See the neo-feudalism comment below. Land and even vertical farming will be controlled by nobility / corporates in the neo-feudalism era.

so what’s your solution then? you realize corporations are just run by people? but yes they become cold, heartless soul sucking places. yes. make your own company and do something about it then. or STFU.

Ah, yes, I will take my $3000 of savings and start a company that can compete with triple-digit billionaire venture capital firms for prime farmland....

Re: Most AI value will come from broad automation, not from R & D

#267

Post by tkjef »

asdf6969 wrote: post #264
tkjef wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that sucks. i just quit my job cuz i was pissed about a lot. but we can move to new feudal leaders or literally become a feudal leader ourself. America baby! Is it easy? nope. neither was getting a tech job or rising and surviving in it. but some of us do and some of us don’t. anyone interested in some cold blooded american history from the mid-1800s should check out American Primeval on netflix. i really enjoyed it.…

> we can move to new feudal leaders Working on it I love history. It’s a great cope to see how people can live fulfilling lives under completely different conditions from the standard 2025 life path. Maybe I will check it out :)

totally agree!

Re: Most AI value will come from broad automation, not from R & D

#268

Post by tkjef »

danaris wrote: post #266
tkjef wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so what’s your solution then? you realize corporations are just run by people? but yes they become cold, heartless soul sucking places. yes. make your own company and do something about it then. or STFU.

Ah, yes, I will take my $3000 of savings and start a company that can compete with triple-digit billionaire venture capital firms for prime farmland....

you could. that’s the beauty of America.

Or you could raise the capital by pitching investors that have money because you actually have a good idea.

or you don’t have a good idea. you don’t have any money. and you want to complain.

what are you asking for? that your parents were more rich? that everyone has the exact same amount of money?

what are you striving for in this comment? are you pointing out that life is unfair? i do agree with that.

Re: Most AI value will come from broad automation, not from R & D

#269

Post by danaris »

goatlover wrote: post #208
rqtwteye wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. But I expect huge progress in the next years/decades. It feels like a lot of things are finally coming together. The same happened in the 90s with the internet or the 2000s with cell phones. People are doing research in a lot of different areas and you see some not so great products that implement them. But then you have a point where all components come together in one really compelling product.

But why would individuals own farms instead of big agriculture just using the robots to make food production even cheaper and more efficient? Of course some people will, but most people will live in urban areas and shop at grocery stores. That's been the trend since farming started being automated.

Because there's a very strong strain of (particularly American) thought that the Ideal Life is living off the land in a single-family house, far away from any cities and probably from most other people.

And even the people who recognize that this ideal is utterly impractical can still be strongly influenced by it, such that when a set of technological advances promises the prospect of actually being able to realize it, they jump toward it with stars in their eyes.

Unfortunately, it's not just impractical because of the lack of technology to support it (other obvious problems include the degree to which humans need social interaction to be healthy, the limited amount of land available, the number of things taken for granted in modern life that cannot be either grown or crafted alone, even with robotic help...). It's a fantasy, and always has been.

Re: Most AI value will come from broad automation, not from R & D

#270

Post by danaris »

tkjef wrote: post #268
danaris wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, yes, I will take my $3000 of savings and start a company that can compete with triple-digit billionaire venture capital firms for prime farmland....

you could. that’s the beauty of America. Or you could raise the capital by pitching investors that have money because you actually have a good idea. or you don’t have a good idea. you don’t have any money. and you want to complain. what are you asking for? that your parents were more rich? that everyone has the exact same amount of money? what are you striving for in this comment? are you pointing out that life is un…

First, and most obviously, I'm pointing out that any individual without massive wealth attempting to tackle such a thing on their own is inevitably doomed to fail.

But more importantly, I'm pointing out that suggesting personal solutions to systemic problems is not only inevitably doomed to fail, but is promulgating the wrongheaded thinking that has created and sustained the crisis that brought us to this point.

"I don't want all the land to be held by neofeudal corporations that exercise control over every aspect of our lives" cannot be solved by "so become a neofeudal overlord yourself!" Not only is it effectively impossible to achieve, at the very best it only solves the problem for you.

I don't want to just have a better life for myself. I want a better life for everyone.

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