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The Burnout Machine

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Re: The Burnout Machine

#261

Post by kulahan »

ghiculescu wrote: post #233
jacobgkau wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My initial reaction to this whole thing was the same as yours (not that I have any love lost for academics). Software engineers do basically no physical labor and usually get paid better than many people who physically work way harder. On the whole, software engineers are not "the victim," as you said. However, your examples made me think. > In other places, you can have a typical 40h/week job at a salary way better…

No industry has 0% unemployment. Most people would kill for the employability of the median software engineer.

This isn’t wrong. In every industry, there will always be people who struggle to find employment. It’s a necessary part of the economic machine. One hopes it is not always the same person suffering, of course.

Still, absolutely everything about this industry is inflated. Pepsi just bought Poppi for $1.5B. That’s a HUGE DEAL, but hardly worth mentioning when compared with the $70B that Microsoft spent on Activision-Blizzard.

Making $80k a year is a GREAT salary. That’s going to invoke a hearty yawn from many when comparing to dev salaries.

Hell, you don’t even need a degree to get in. Just the knowledge to back yourself up in an interview.

I’m old enough to remember the hiring frenzy of the dot-com bubble, as well as many smaller hiring frenzies since.

Having watched my parents claw their way to a very happy retirement, it’s insane how easy life is in this career field.

I bring great energy to my teams, but technically I’m not incredible. I’ve never been Big-N quality. Still, I’m going to retire earlier in my life than my dad, who (very regrettably) even got an infusion of life insurance cash via my mom’s passing. I’ll retire with more spending power too. I have one nice toy - a car I spent $45k on. Otherwise, I live a modest life on my income, but all of this is based on watching my parents’ spending habits and lifestyle, so it feels like a fair comparison to me at least.

This is an absolutely blessed field. Can’t imagine where I’d be if I’d been born even just a hundred years ago.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#262

Post by astrange »

> You know the pitch - beanbags in the office, free kombucha on tap, and "Agile" processes that are supposed to make everything more flexible, more efficient.

Does this still happen? This sounds kind of 2010.

What I find interesting about this page is how poorly written it is. It looks like a chimera of AI writing (bullet points) and someone on too much Adderall (…because that's happened to me). It's too long yet too short at once. I think the author should try reading it out loud to someone else.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#264

Post by Izkata »

aylmao wrote: post #213
stared wrote: post #100

Software engineering is one of the ways of playing life in "easy mode" (I moved from academia over a decade ago, and I know the difference). This blog post tries to paint it differently - and it feels like it lacks perspective compared to virtually any other occupation. > We’re living in a world where billion dollar tech companies expect us to live and breathe code, demanding 80 hour weeks under the guise of "passion…

IMO, this is a bad take. I've been in this industry long enough to have heard all the arguments presented here before— it's the classic ones: "pay is good", "not all jobs are bad", "others have it worse", etc. We're in a strategic industry with lots of investment, and a lot of us who check Hacker News have good enough resumes to be in demand, but this doesn't change the fact we —software engineers as a whole— are wor…

Being a worker doesn't mean "working class". That phrase pretty specifically is for people who do some sort of physical work. We fall under "professional class", people who mostly do knowledge work, traditionally at a desk in an office. They're both generally considered part of the middle class.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#265

Post by Veserv »

echelon wrote: post #236
4ndrewl wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you like to remove all of the benefits unions have given you?

Working nights and weekends got me a close to ten figure exit at a now publicly traded fintech. So yeah, I don't mind. Rather than retiring on that money, I'm back at it again, and I'm working even harder. I know what mediocrity and complacency is. I've worked surrounded by it, and I'll do anything to avoid it. I don't want that bullshit where coworkers strive to do the minimum and everybody plays hot potato to see w…

What? You claim to have gotten a nearly 10 figure exit, yet you claim you made 450 k$ TC in your last job [1]. Even a maximally conservative estimate of 100,000,001 $ for a “nearly 10 figure exit” (being literally 1 dollar over 9 figures) would get you over 4 M$ annually in risk free treasuries. Why would you work for 450 k$?

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43429259

Re: The Burnout Machine

#266

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

echelon wrote: post #236
4ndrewl wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you like to remove all of the benefits unions have given you?

Working nights and weekends got me a close to ten figure exit at a now publicly traded fintech. So yeah, I don't mind. Rather than retiring on that money, I'm back at it again, and I'm working even harder. I know what mediocrity and complacency is. I've worked surrounded by it, and I'll do anything to avoid it. I don't want that bullshit where coworkers strive to do the minimum and everybody plays hot potato to see w…

Oh, this person isn’t a worker class. They’re managerial class spreading essentially propaganda against something that would threaten them,

Re: The Burnout Machine

#267

Post by diffxx »

echelon wrote: post #236
4ndrewl wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you like to remove all of the benefits unions have given you?

Working nights and weekends got me a close to ten figure exit at a now publicly traded fintech. So yeah, I don't mind. Rather than retiring on that money, I'm back at it again, and I'm working even harder. I know what mediocrity and complacency is. I've worked surrounded by it, and I'll do anything to avoid it. I don't want that bullshit where coworkers strive to do the minimum and everybody plays hot potato to see w…

Imagine putting your time and energy into something other than building a bigger imaginary pile for yourself.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#268

Post by Aeolun »

echelon wrote: post #236
4ndrewl wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you like to remove all of the benefits unions have given you?

Working nights and weekends got me a close to ten figure exit at a now publicly traded fintech. So yeah, I don't mind. Rather than retiring on that money, I'm back at it again, and I'm working even harder. I know what mediocrity and complacency is. I've worked surrounded by it, and I'll do anything to avoid it. I don't want that bullshit where coworkers strive to do the minimum and everybody plays hot potato to see w…

While I don’t necessarily disagree with the larger point on mediocrity, that’s a massive instance of survivorship bias. For every you there’s a hundred others that burned themselves out only for them to be fired a moment after.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#269

Post by wolrah »

echelon wrote: post #236
4ndrewl wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you like to remove all of the benefits unions have given you?

Working nights and weekends got me a close to ten figure exit at a now publicly traded fintech. So yeah, I don't mind. Rather than retiring on that money, I'm back at it again, and I'm working even harder. I know what mediocrity and complacency is. I've worked surrounded by it, and I'll do anything to avoid it. I don't want that bullshit where coworkers strive to do the minimum and everybody plays hot potato to see w…

> Working nights and weekends got me a close to ten figure exit at a now publicly traded fintech. So yeah, I don't mind.

It's an entirely different matter if you stand to make huge gains if the company succeeds. That is not the majority of jobs in the field. Most of us will never even have the opportunity to be involved in one of those. That's not what this discussion is about.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#270

Post by bdangubic »

Izkata wrote: post #264
aylmao wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, this is a bad take. I've been in this industry long enough to have heard all the arguments presented here before— it's the classic ones: "pay is good", "not all jobs are bad", "others have it worse", etc. We're in a strategic industry with lots of investment, and a lot of us who check Hacker News have good enough resumes to be in demand, but this doesn't change the fact we —software engineers as a whole— are wor…

Being a worker doesn't mean "working class". That phrase pretty specifically is for people who do some sort of physical work. We fall under "professional class", people who mostly do knowledge work, traditionally at a desk in an office. They're both generally considered part of the middle class.

you can put a lipstick on a pig with some linkedin lingo like “professional class” or “working professional” but that is just for bars to impress boys/girls. end of the day you are worker and working class. the fact that you might be in the office while someone is out enjoying the sun at the construction site is just geography
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