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5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

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Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no way that "15MBs-1" is more clear than "15MB/s", especially in an environment which lacks the ability to give text superscript styling.

Even worse when it's actually 15Mb/s.

Which could be written as 15Mbps with no doubt whatsoever.

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#262
I find the premise of the article completely out of touch with the growth environment of the last 40 years. Of course the median consumer don't have an application for more than what the current infra can offer, it has consistently been the case since broadband inception. The reason is simple, no one will create applications designed for the median consumer with requirements higher than what the infrastructure can offer as this is guaranteed to fail. I thought it was clear that it was a typical offer driven market. Reading this article I'm really afraid that we will shoot ourselves in the foot if we forget this. A bit like what is happening with CPUs.

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#263

OK so someone has noticed that you "only" need 15MBs-1 for a 4K stream. Jolly good. Now let's address latency - that entire article only mentioned the word once and it looks like it was by accident. Latency isn't cool but it is why your Teams/Zoom/whatevs call sounds a bit odd. You are probably used to the weird over-talking episodes you get when a sound stream goes somewhat async. You put up with it but you really s…

Latency is an issue but it's not the biggest one. Most real-time protocols can adjust for latency (often using some sort of OOB performance measurement port/protocol.) The issue is jitter. When your latency varies a lot, it's hard for an algorithm to compensate.

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#264
post #253

> Could maximum data speeds—on mobile devices, at home, at work—be approaching “fast enough” for most people for most purposes? That seems to be the theme across all consumer electronics as well. For an average person mid phones are good enough, bargain bin laptops are good enough, almost any TV you can buy today is good enough. People may of course desire higher quality and specific segments will have higher needs,…

I don't understand this "good enough" argument. We never really needed anything we use daily today. Life was "good enough" 100 years ago (if you could afford it), should we have stopped? 4K video reaches you only because it's compressed to crap. It's "good enough" until it's not. 360p TV was good enough at some point too.

> 4K video reaches you only because it's compressed to crap.

Yes, but I assume when they say the "consumer" they mean everyone not us. Most people i've had in my home couldnt tell you the difference between a 4K bluray at 2 odd meters on a 65" panel vs 1080p.

I can be looking at a screen full of compression artificts that seem like the most obvious thing i've ever seen and ill be surrounded by people going "what are you talking about?"

Even if I can get them to notice, the response is almost always the same.

"Oh...yeah ok I guess I can see. I just assumed it supposed to look like it shrug its just not noticable to me"

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get ready to be sold the exact same thing you already own, just "with AI" now.

I’m all for advancements in the size of various models able to be loaded onto devices, and the amount of fast ram available for them

Sure, but why is my Samsung tumble dryer "enhanced with AI" now? You know what it does? You turn it on, it shows "optimising with AI" on the screen....to show you the most used programme. That's not AI, that's a counter in a text file somewhere. But of course everything has to have AI now so my tumble dryer now has AI. The market has spoken.

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#266

OK so someone has noticed that you "only" need 15MBs-1 for a 4K stream. Jolly good. Now let's address latency - that entire article only mentioned the word once and it looks like it was by accident. Latency isn't cool but it is why your Teams/Zoom/whatevs call sounds a bit odd. You are probably used to the weird over-talking episodes you get when a sound stream goes somewhat async. You put up with it but you really s…

Latency is an issue but it's not the biggest one. Most real-time protocols can adjust for latency (often using some sort of OOB performance measurement port/protocol.) The issue is jitter. When your latency varies a lot, it's hard for an algorithm to compensate.

You can't fix problems caused by network latency by adjustments in real time apps like video/audio calls or gaming.

Maybe you are thinking of working around bufferbloat?

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#267
The providers have alreadyy fixed this (coming soon near you): My fixed network operator, instead of finally forcing the fiber supplier to honor their contract and fix the final 5m of cabel, is pushing me to use a 5g box for fixed internet.

So you want me to trade my horrible 100mbit line with ok latency for anything between 10 and 120mbit depending on the time of day with a latency if over 50ms guaranteed. And you also get a CGNAT IP and thus no incoming connections because who needs ipv6!

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#268
The "fast enough" illusion comes from having consumers adjust for years to flaky wireless connections after we had a good period of steady broadband performance improvements. If the latter had continued at the same rate, we could now rely on home users having at least 10-100 Gbit/s bandwidth and could build entirely different kidns of applications.

IOW: Apps could definitely use high bandwidth & low latency networking (think AI acceleration, remote storage, volumetric telepresence etc) if we had it reliably, but our due to wireless transition apps are adopted to stagnating speeds.

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#270

OK so someone has noticed that you "only" need 15MBs-1 for a 4K stream. Jolly good. Now let's address latency - that entire article only mentioned the word once and it looks like it was by accident. Latency isn't cool but it is why your Teams/Zoom/whatevs call sounds a bit odd. You are probably used to the weird over-talking episodes you get when a sound stream goes somewhat async. You put up with it but you really s…

Barring some revolutionary new material where we can get EM waves to travel orders of magnitude faster through it over current stuff, I don't think we're ever getting around the latency problem.

It's usually not a speed of light problem. It's a problem of everyone optimizing for bandwidth, not latency, because that is the number that products are advertised with. Speed of light is 200'000-300'000 km/s in the media used, that should not be very noticeable when talking to someone in the same country.
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