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20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

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Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#261

Post by Fomite »

Shank wrote: post #15

I think the main issue for anyone wanting to take the offer is simply: this was never authorized by congress, so the money to pay people to September is questionable if it exists at best. Meanwhile, there's a government funding deadline on March 14, 2025. So there's a very real chance at this deal offering something closer to ~1 month of pay before it suddenly gets dropped due to budget negotiations. It would be an i…

And proposed by two people, Musk and Trump, who are, shall we say, not great at holding up their end of financial bargains.

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#262

Post by xeromal »

scottyah wrote: post #232
weinzierl wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am complete outsider and know nothing about this so I am sorry to ask but in my view this is a shocking proposition. Can anyone corroborate this? EDIT: Specifically the claim that "SpaceX is so far behind on its bills that dozens and dozens of companies in Texas have had to place liens against the company"

They churn through employees fast and they usually exit through burnout (no offloading) and the people wanting to work there skew towards young people who don't know what they're doing. A lot of work gets delayed, dropped, etc and some bad suppliers even take advantage of that ("the last person said they'd do X"). I know it's en-vogue to hate on Elon companies, and a lot of people would love to hear that the World's…

Yeah, I've always been trying to be objective as possible when it comes to the hate sent towards Tesla, SpaceX, etc from the heat Elon is getting but having lived near Hawthorne, I've met a couple of people who worked at SpaceX and it is insane. I had a really good friend who moved from the midwest with his wife to spacex and she became a favorite at spacex which meant she lived at spacex. He would see her like once a week and eventually they went to shit. I had applied there before but after seeing that I was no longer interested

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#264

Post by Jtsummers »

djohnston wrote: post #246
ojbyrne wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the number is only 2 or 3 because once some people are confirmed for the cabinet, they have to leave the House of Representatives.

Really? There must be some replacement who steps in though, no? Otherwise districts would have no representation, which seems unlikely.

For the House of Representatives, the state will hold a special election to fill vacancies:

> When vacancies happen in the Representation from any State, the Executive Authority thereof shall issue Writs of Election to fill such Vacancies.

- Article I, Section 2

For the Senate, the governor of the state may (per their legislative body's approval) make a temporary appointment and will also hold a special election:

> When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of such State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct.

- Amendment XVII

https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/constitution-transcri...

https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/amendments-11-27#toc-...

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#265

Post by Tadpole9181 »

jfkrrorj wrote: post #67
Shank wrote: post #15

I think the main issue for anyone wanting to take the offer is simply: this was never authorized by congress, so the money to pay people to September is questionable if it exists at best. Meanwhile, there's a government funding deadline on March 14, 2025. So there's a very real chance at this deal offering something closer to ~1 month of pay before it suddenly gets dropped due to budget negotiations. It would be an i…

》 So there's a very real chance at this deal offering something closer to ~1 month of pay before it suddenly gets dropped due to budget negotiations. I do not see your arguments US has worker protections, even if US government goes bancrupt, it has to pay its obligations. And if government refuses to pay, no worker, even if employed, is getting anything!

No, they don't. Contracts are enforced by the threat of the state's monopoly on violence. If the US goes bunk, who exactly are you going to to get your money? The courts are bunk too.

Even if the government exists, if Trump and Musk hold the payment system and you somehow get a judge to tell them to pay, they can just say no. Then what? Are you going to go Rambo? They hold a monopoly on violence and imprisonment.

This is why government's need to be set up with so many layers of indirect power and checks against direct power. this is why the military (should) have no role in governance.

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#266

Post by Applejinx »

nyokodo wrote: post #75
csa wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it a given there would be a budget impasse, if all institutions of power are held by Republicans? I’m not an expert on this topic, so please take these comments with a grain of salt: 1. The simplest way a budget impasse could start is with internal feuding within the Republican Party. Some Republicans are very aggressive deficit hawks all the time. Some Republicans are only “deficit hawks” when a Democrat is pre…

> massive cuts of workers That is what Trump is doing via DOGE so the burn-it-down camp seems pretty well served, more than anytime since the post-war demobilization anyway. The impasse, if it occurs, is more likely to be with those in Congress that don’t want to reduce the size of government.

I think the burn-it-down camp is better described as true believers in free-marketism, and they genuinely expect business to be booming and things to work great when they've cut back on government functionality.

DOGE acts different. It seems to me DOGE is about crashing the US economy and/or world economy to attempt wild and radical Silicon Valley theories about alternate societies. As such, its actions are inclined to ruin the fortunes and the business of the free marketeer camp, because those folks are functioning in the real world and have businesses, employees, and pay those employees in dollars.

So I don't think the 'burn-it-down' camp should favor DOGE. It is in no way their ally and is there to ruin them, in order to rebuild a society upon somebody else and leave 'em ruined. It's pretty plain to see DOGE's opinion of those people based on its attitude to H1B visas, for instance.

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#267

Post by root_axis »

bmitc wrote: post #221
root_axis wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's see what happens. At this point, I'm not convinced the union has any leverage.

The federal employee unions have incredible power, often to the detriment of the government.

Like I said, at this point I'm not convinced they have any leverage.

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#268

Post by yashasolutions »

breadwinner wrote: post #248
carom wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To my knowledge, no. Former employees sued to get Twitter's old pre-acquisition severance package and the court dismissed it. [1] 1. https://techcrunch.com/2024/07/10/elon-musk-does-not-owe-ex-...

How about this: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-loses-battle-dismis...

This one is about executives not regular employees.

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#269

Post by everforward »

ziddoap wrote: post #185
ryandrake wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost any reply to a political thread in the next four years is going to be "That sounds illegal" but it's only illegal if the law gets enforced. I encourage anyone responding with "That sounds illegal" or "They can't do that" to also include in their response, "...and it will be enforced by [xxxx]." and try to come up with a realistic xxxx. EDIT: I'm not making any judgment about whether this particular thing is le…

> it's only illegal if the law gets enforced. It is completely valid to say something is illegal and unenforced. Consider that non-enforcement doesn't suddenly make something legal. Enforcement can start at any time. (Will it? Who knows!)

For the government, it largely does because the individuals are immune from lawsuits and the government fining itself is a pointless ouroboros. Many things can't be retroactively unwound reasonably.

Once the impact has been made, it's pretty sticky. Once these workers are gone and have been replaced, we're unlikely to unwind it. Once people are deported we're unlikely to un-deport them (I'm not even sure what that would mean).

Completely correct for individuals, though. Unwinding is simple there, you can just send them to jail at a later date.

Re: 20k federal workers take "buyout" so far, official says

#270

Post by Applejinx »

scarface_74 wrote: post #110
lacksconfidence wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that resignation was part of a larger deal. If the deal is thrown out, shouldn't the resignation be thrown out too?

And what happens when you try to come back to work? Will Musk pay you or allow you into the office? He literally has control of the federal budget for payments now. We are getting into banana republic territory now with no rule of law.

Specifically we're getting into territory where political actors choose to behave like there is no rule of law, in hopes they will be believed.

Not sure about that one. Nor do I think the election would have gone the way it did if people generally figured their choice was to have Elon Musk's word be law, and everything else including the Constitution to be thrown away as old hat.

I really don't think people priced that into their decision, so buyer's remorse becomes a real factor. People may demand that rule of law not be thrown away.

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