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Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

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Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#261

Post by s1artibartfast »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #236
s1artibartfast wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't disagree more. We will have to agree to disagree. The logs per person of one team with a million square miles to work with is more than 1000 teams working the same land. They get to pick the very best.

>The logs per person of one team with a million square miles to work with is When they have logging trucks and chainsaws and GPS. The logs per person of one team when they're using technology circa 1905 is modest, at best, the logs per person when they're using iron axes and shitty leather boots cobbled together is pathetic. >They get to pick the very best. Human nature gets in the way of that. They'll pick whoever c…

>They get to pick the very best.

>>Human nature gets in the way of that. They'll pick whoever couldn't schmooze enough to get a better job.

You missed my intent. They get to pick the best trees. if there is one team instead of 100, they get to log giant old growth trees next to the lumber mill instead of driving 1000 miles to some crappy new growth Forrest.

Their spot would be at least as good as the best location available the 100 teams.

As discussed elsewhere, I dont think you need 8 billion people to manufacture a modern chainsaw.

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#262

Post by arvinsim »

roenxi wrote: post #198
voldacar wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wearing a t-shirt with a prefabricated group identity marker, whether purchased or self-manufactured, makes one a curious sort of "non-conformist".

It is pretty cute. People want desperately to conform, and they know the non-conformists are cool. So they do the logical thing and conform with the non-conformists. Heart in the right spot. Execution has room to improve.

It's really sad if you think about it.

Nowhere in time has freedom of speech been enshrined and creation been easier. But we just can't seem to take advantage of all the freedom and tools that we have at our disposal.

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#263

Post by roenxi »

arvinsim wrote: post #262
roenxi wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is pretty cute. People want desperately to conform, and they know the non-conformists are cool. So they do the logical thing and conform with the non-conformists. Heart in the right spot. Execution has room to improve.

It's really sad if you think about it. Nowhere in time has freedom of speech been enshrined and creation been easier. But we just can't seem to take advantage of all the freedom and tools that we have at our disposal.

It isn't sad at all. Freedom for most people is freedom to conform to the ways of someone they respect as opposed to cronies of some government official. And more philosophically freedom is to give the people worthy of imitation as much room to be great as possible so that people who follow them get the best version to copy.

Humans (with rare exceptions) are happiest when operating in groups.

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#264

Post by [deleted] »

torginus wrote: post #103
Sharlin wrote: post #23

"One may dye their hair green and wear their grandma’s coat all they want. Capital has the ability to subsume all critiques into itself. Even those who would critique capital end up reinforcing it instead." —Joyce Messier in Disco Elysium Probably inspired by Mark Fisher: "The power of capitalist realism derives in part from the way that capitalism subsumes and consumes all of previous history: one effect of its 'sys…

While Disco Elysium gets a pass for it as it's meant primarily as an entertainment product (and the ridiculousness of the sentence might serve as a parody of the idea, which would be incredibly on brand for the game), I've found Mark Fisher's analysis in Capitalist Realism to be incredibly surface level and either wrong, or so vague, as to be meaningless, and it revolves around Fisher's obession with pop culture, and…

[deleted]

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#265

Post by DavidPiper »

red_admiral wrote: post #240

An older take on this: https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths Except that the process has accelerated faster than even Moore's Law. Maybe parts of queerspace will survive because we come up with new identities faster than they can be commodified?

This was an enlightening read, thank you for posting it.

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#266

Post by _rpxpx »

Easy to find oneself plaintively nodding along with this, but actually the free/open-source subculture has not been commodified. RMS is, I know, not exactly sexy, but he is actually hip. Someone somewhere I remember said that the icons of the counter-culture now are people like Snowden. I tend to agree with this. They are indeed rather nerdy, and one might quibble with Snowden's choice of national refuge (assuming he had some choice...), but if there are rebels and anarchists now, it is people like them, not the "punks" with spotify streaming and an instagram feed. Tattoos are mainstream. Emacs, and libreboot, are radical.

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#267

Post by virginwidow »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #37
Palomides wrote: post #6

there are still subcultures: the ones unpalatable to corporate interests; ones around topics that are illegal, very politically fringe, or centered on weird sex stuff

You mean the ones banned by most social media, hard to find on google and even harder to find in real-life?

*this*

> You mean the ones banned by most social media, hard to find on google and even harder to find in real-life?

Yup. This dire dialogue (THANKS!) invoked a forgotten childhood "recording": Grandpa So like it's now I hear Grandpa's forthright & shameless bellow:

A Jock Tamson's Bairns

Ah!

110+ minutes after shoving "A Jock Tamson's Bairns" up the tailpipe of several major 'SERP'

Results *DID* happen. Kindly forbear, posting those to the original submission may generate more curiosity

*A Jock Tamson's Bairns*

Run, Forrest RUN

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#269

Post by musicale »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #246
torginus wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Playing an instrument (or being part of a band), being part of a writing club. Anything where the meat of the activity either requires genuine ability and/or effort, or enjoying skillful humans performing that activity for you. The problem of a lot of subcultures is that they define themselves in large part by flashy externalities, and commodification is part of their DNA. For example: You like an underground band's…

Musicians are notorious for fetishising gear ownership. Old synthesizers routinely sell for five or sometimes six figures. Some of the buyers are talent-free collectors, others are industry successes who have the cash to spare and both collect and use them. Post your beat made on a $100 commodity synth, and everyone will be "Good effort.." no matter how good it is. Writing on social media is a lifestyle activity. You…

> Old synthesizers routinely sell for five or sometimes six figures

Well, if it's a CS-80, sign me up! Seriously though, the analog synthesizer renaissance has been very good to synth musicians, from Prophet and Oberheim reissues (and modern versions) to Behringer's clones to modular to inexpensive mini-synths, along with new keyboards reviving things like ribbon controllers and polyphonic aftertouch.

> Post your beat made on a $100 commodity synth, and everyone will be "Good effort.." no matter how good it is.

Lots of great (and sometimes very popular) music is made on free or inexpensive software synths, plugins and DAWs. Does anyone really care as long as the music is good?

Re: Anything threatening to be a subculture is commodified before it can walk (2014)

#270

Post by detourdog »

sitkack wrote: post #35
detourdog wrote: post #8

Dumpster diving is one of those sub-cultures that is hard to commodify. One of my kids prefers the ethics of dumpster diving. What a privilege.

I was a pretty avid dumpster diver 15-20 years ago. Lots of yuppies were very interested, I toyed with some performance art in my head about having high end dumpster diving coaching for the affluent dumpster-curious. I did take some new people on cleaner, more mellow excursions, they absolutely loved it. This is what makes capitalism so insidious, it coöpts our very reality. It is an amazingly persistent mind virus.

I think it might not be capitalism alone that co-opts reality. Social structures of all kinds use words to co-opt reality into a coherent story.
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