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UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Manhattan

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Re: UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Manhattan

#261

Post by mindslight »

busterarm wrote: post #230
vundercind wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think to some degree the problem is a combo of some overestimating among part of the population (driven in part by recall of actual historical crime rates, and by anti-"blue"-city news media) of how dangerous big cities are, but also a huge failure to appreciate how dangerous lots of non-big-city places in the US are. It's not entirely that big US cities are necessarily super-safe (they're largely not, if you compa…

We're not that rich here. We're just in a permissive firearm state with a high rate of military service. The houses here are average, but my neighbors are active and retired military, retired cops, the state governor's official security detail, lots of tradespeople etc. There's a trailer park 2 minutes down the road and lots of small family farms here.

In 2024, what you're describing is rich. The neighbors you describe feel like they have a place in society. They had (and likely continue to have!) a steady and decent government income, rather than the continual screw turning of the corporate-inflationary wealth extraction machine. They all have assets to lose if their kids were to step out of line. Their specific jobs also provided them with the non-monetary benefit of firearms and other defensive training that would have otherwise cost ~ten thousand dollars of discretionary income to learn on its own. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're on the pleasant side of the bifurcating society.

Re: UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Manhattan

#262

Post by vundercind »

busterarm wrote: post #247
vundercind wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... but per-capita is 100% of what matters when assessing risk...? [EDIT] Assessing risk based on course crime stats, I mean. Of course individual context and situations matter a lot, too.

Not really. Proximity is important. It influences how many people are going to be affected by it. Getting murdered on my front lawn is a lot different than getting murdered in the lobby of a housing complex with 1000 people living in it. Density is even more important when considering random crime because you have even more people who will be potential victims when someone is targeting an area.

> Density is even more important when considering random crime because you have even more people who will be potential victims when someone is targeting an area.

This is true—it's why rural towns and small cities are often really dangerous, while the overall state they're in might not have high violent crime stats, if a large proportion of the state's population isn't in towns or cities at all. Living far away from people is an effective way to avoid crime.

Re: UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Manhattan

#263

Post by vundercind »

r00fus wrote: post #244
vundercind wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an ongoing "all the big liberal cities are scary" vibe in much media that's been internalized by a large proportion of the population. I know multiple people (and have myself experienced this) who've been greeted with warnings and concern from relatives when traveling to major cities... when those cities have violent crime rates far lower than the places they/we live. Like, a fifth as much or lower. It's stil…

Anecdotally one of my colleagues recently moved from W. Va to the CA and his entire family are constantly fearful for his family because they have been conditioned to think liberal cities (and even CA in general) is a crime-infested cesspit. Like his whole family is praying for him weekly - even many months after the move.

My ex-home red state has double the murder rate of NYC. Not New York State, the city. DOUBLE. The stats where I actually lived were even worse (and I lived in one of the better counties in my area).

Nonetheless, always the tedious ritual of warnings and concern when I traveled to any "real" city. Like, guys, save that shit for when I'm coming back. I should be warning you, I'm leaving danger. And please stop watching cable news and listening to AM radio.

Re: UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Manhattan

#264

Post by EA-3167 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #46
jeffbee wrote: post #42

Always seemed pretty strange to me that you can build and oversee an organization widely perceived (whether fairly or not) as evil, host what those evil-perceivers will view as Bad Rich Guy Conference in public, in a country where anyone can get as many guns as they want, and there isn't more violence like this. Seems like an unstable operating point for a society.

This is the comment that has been in my head since the news broke, and I feel like we are only at the beginning, like the pause before the first drop of a rollercoaster with the forward looking macro (political and economic tension, broadly speaking). Laws and rules only matter so long as we're all willing to believe they do.

Relevant XKCD https://xkcd.com/1958

I think people skip over this a LOT, but it's the basis for society and was long before we had the means to track down most killers and bring them to any sort of justice. Most people, even when given freedom from consequences and ample opportunities, are not murderers.

Re: UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Manhattan

#265

Post by shishy »

xkqd wrote: post #207
shishy wrote: post #21

I know it's like this but still so depressing this is the best we can do in America. Utterly garbage way to manage a core function of society.

I’m not sure I follow. What’s uniquely American about killing decision makers? Especially morally questionable individuals? Yeah, it’s a garbage way for society to operate but this is an expression of the human condition. If anything this is a level of action I wouldn’t expect from America.

My comment was about healthcare insurance, not the CEO getting shot

Re: UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Manhattan

#266

Post by s1artibartfast »

mindslight wrote: post #206
oceanplexian wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Increasingly, though, people in the United States feel that the rich and powerful have become effectively insulated from the legal system, such that the common person is denied any redress. They're not insulated from the legal system, the problem is the public is being misled. It works like this: The media lies to the public and tells them that a CEO or Public Figure is getting away with X, so they get some washed…

You're missing the point. The people running corporations are NOT flagrantly violating the law-as-written, with the courts just refusing to enforce it (for the most part). Rather they bend the law, often through tiny repeated violations of the law-as-written, and also through lobbying/bribing to undermine the creation of directly applicable new laws, to produce abjectly terrible outcomes that end up being de facto le…

There are still the factors of exposure rate and a difference between legal reality and expectations.

Fundamental to this is that people are increasingly siloed and have little idea how closely the legal system reflects the will of the majority. They just think that their opinion is the majority and anything that deviates is the product of a corrupt system and public disenfranchisement.

Re: UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Manhattan

#267

Post by Clubber »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #222
jmyeet wrote: post #132

I advocate for the fairer distribution of wealth in society. Not only because it's fair but because it's better for everyone . There are many reasons for this including avoiding the alienation of labor and giving people dignity. All it takes is the ultra-wealthy to have slightly less wealth . So why is wealth concentration bad for society apart from that? Because the ultimate form of wealth distribution is war and re…

[flagged]

>You keep saying killed, but there is a difference between letting people die and killing them.

Using dubious legalese to deny a life saving claim that happens to cost say $200,000 that you took premiums for is pretty close. If you pay out of pocket, it might save your life, but you're bankrupt, your children get no inheritance, and you probably lose your house. That's a pretty insidious act for profit IMO.

>Voters are widely split on healthcare reform and have no consensus beyond the fact that they want it. I want healthcare reform too, but probably dont agree with you on what that means. I don't that that justifies a consequentialist claim that the other is a killer, let alone reprisal.

I think the easiest step would be to drop the Medicaid age from 65 to 60. Drop it 5 years every 5 years or so. The lower it goes, the cheaper that bracket will be. I don't know why any politician hasn't suggested this, but I can guess.

Re: UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Manhattan

#268

Post by BobAliceInATree »

Kye wrote: post #143
cpitman wrote: post #96

Just want to caution everyone to not jump to conclusions. Remember when Bob Lee was shot in San Francisco and everyone assumed it was because of how unsafe San Francisco is? And then it turned out to be another tech exec? Beyond the one motive we can think of, this person (like any person) had other things going on in their life. We have no idea what the motive was until the killer is found.

There isn't a propaganda machine trying to make Manhattan look dangerous, so I don't think anyone thought this was random.

There's literally propaganda on Fox News going on right now blaming or at least connecting this to undocumented migrants.

https://bsky.app/profile/justinbaragona.bsky.social/post/3lc...

Re: UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Manhattan

#270

Post by Clubber »

yyuugg wrote: post #152

I don't think this ceo should be killed. However it's absolutely the case that this ceo has taken actions that resulted in the deaths and suffering of others. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if someone lost a family member due to this ceo and that turned out to be the motive. I'm nervous about the precedent this sets, if that turns out to be the motive.

>I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if someone lost a family member due to this ceo and that turned out to be the motive.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was thousands or tens of thousands.

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