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Bitcoin has made a new all-time high price

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Re: Bitcoin has made a new all-time high price

#261

Post by kerbs »

hparadiz wrote: post #76
kerbs wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gold is used to make things. You can argue what its value should be as a material alone, but it’s not entirely speculation.

Crypto can be used as a store of wealth when crossing borders preventing search and seizure of your wealth against overzealous governments. See Russia in the early 90s which would regularly search and confiscate cash from people leaving. That alone makes it very valuable.

You made a subtle, but important, pivot from the topic of “Bitcoin” to the broader topic of “crypto”.

Bitcoin specifically, with its multi-trillion dollar market cap, is built up that high purely on speculation. It is a very fragile store of wealth, especially the higher its market cap becomes.

Re: Bitcoin has made a new all-time high price

#262

Post by dowager_dan99 »

Thorrez wrote: post #204
fallingsquirrel wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These threads always leave me baffled. Some people say that only drug dealers use bitcoin. Others say the ratio of normal dudes to drug dealers is 1,000:1 or more. I guess it depends what sounds convenient at the time.

I think the argument is that the drug dealers are actually using bitcoin for its utility, whereas the 1000 normal dudes are just buying it as an investment, not to use.

if you replace "investment" with "speculation" I agree

Re: Bitcoin has made a new all-time high price

#263

Post by kerbs »

chairmansteve wrote: post #128
kerbs wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gold is used to make things. You can argue what its value should be as a material alone, but it’s not entirely speculation.

BTC is used for trade. You know, drugs etc. And money laundering. Sanctions busting. Tax avoidance. It has a lot of utility...

It is used for those things I agree.

Those things alone do not hold up a $1.5T market cap. I would say they don’t hold up a $1.5B cap either.

Re: Bitcoin has made a new all-time high price

#264

Post by Geee »

crazygringo wrote: post #245
Geee wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, the price history is what convinces people to buy it. The longer it goes, the more convincing it becomes. Gold has been valuable for thousands of years, which is why everyone knows it will keep being valuable. Valuations of collectibles and monetary assets, which don't change, are based on their historical price performance. The price history tells the story of how people buy and sell an asset with certain funda…

I don't know what to tell you, except that you're simply wrong about how pricing works. I don't know where you got this idea that pricing history gives you all the information you need to invest, but it's not what a single professional investor, economist, or financial executive would tell you. Not one. If you want to learn how pricing works, you might want to start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_pricing h…

As I said, this does not apply to monetary assets, which don't have returns or expected future returns, like gold or bitcoin. In addition, these assets do not change. There are no news. All we know is how the price has behaved in different market conditions, and investors try to create models based on that alone.

I didn't say that the future price could be predicted or that it is guaranteed. I just said that the historical price information should contain all the relevant information about the asset.

There is obviously fascinating history about why gold has become valuable and what fundamental properties caused it to become valuable, but it's not really relevant to investors. Same applies to Bitcoin.

Re: Bitcoin has made a new all-time high price

#265

Post by RGamma »

fallingsquirrel wrote: post #168
tivert wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's the scenario where the government can take the digital money from your bank accounts but can't take the digital money from your crypto wallet? In cryptocurrency's defense (I am not a Bitcoiner), it not as easy for them to do that, because they can't just order a bank to transfer it/freeze it....assuming the owner is going through a lot of elaborate, inconvenient, and easy to footgun security measures. If you…

These threads always leave me baffled. Some people say that only drug dealers use bitcoin. Others say the ratio of normal dudes to drug dealers is 1,000:1 or more. I guess it depends what sounds convenient at the time.

By head count maybe, but by value you gotta include the ransomware gangs, gambling rings, weapons dealers, human traffickers, money launderers, etc. too. And then it's probably not 1000:1 anymore.

Re: Bitcoin has made a new all-time high price

#266

Post by diegoholiveira »

FabHK wrote: post #220
diegoholiveira wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USD and EUR is also used to buy illegal products.

Well, yes, fiat is extraordinarily useful, and used, including for crime. However, there are many rules and mechanisms in place to stop fiat being used for crime (KYC, AML, CTF, ...). So, it is better suited to legitimate transactions, and worse for illegitimate ones. Lastly, fiat is indispensable in running a modern economy. In contrast, crypto is designed (qua permissionlessness) to evade regulation. Since it's fai…

> However, there are many rules and mechanisms in place to stop fiat being used for crime

Yes, but even with those mechanisms in place, crime was doing ok without crypto.

> Lastly, fiat is indispensable in running a modern economy.

Not sure about this.

Re: Bitcoin has made a new all-time high price

#267

Post by [deleted] »

str3wer wrote: post #135
dudus wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. All the time, just not for the things you and I buy such as groceries and transportation. Instead Bitcoin is used to buy illegal products and services such as drugs, weapons, politicians and hit men

ah the old debunked story "but crypto is used only for crime" https://www.forbes.com/sites/haileylennon/2021/01/19/the-fal...

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin has made a new all-time high price

#269

Post by karaterobot »

hshshshshsh wrote: post #237
karaterobot wrote: post #127

Note that it hit a new all-time high last night, but it's been in the ~$70ks since last March. The election results may have pushed it over the top, but it's been way up for a while. The people who predicted it would collapse appear to have been wrong, and the people who predicted it would come back appear to be right. My own position was that it's so volatile that it will always be a roller coaster, which is why I d…

Your entire personality and idea of you is also a ponzy scheme. Does that make your life any less real ? Here you are pretending to be a somebody commenting so seriously on why Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme. Also go and short Bitcoin if you believe it is a ponzi scheme.

Even though your reply contradicts itself, you've given me much to think about today.

Re: Bitcoin has made a new all-time high price

#270

Post by [deleted] »

karaterobot wrote: post #269
hshshshshsh wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your entire personality and idea of you is also a ponzy scheme. Does that make your life any less real ? Here you are pretending to be a somebody commenting so seriously on why Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme. Also go and short Bitcoin if you believe it is a ponzi scheme.

Even though your reply contradicts itself, you've given me much to think about today.

[deleted]
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