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CEOs are running companies from afar even as workers return to office

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Re: CEOs are running companies from afar even as workers return to office

#261

Post by diogenescynic »

teractiveodular wrote: post #126
ern wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the introduction of WFH during the pandemic hurt a lot of IT workers in the long-run. In the interests of “fairness” they are being ordered back to the office post-Covid even when their work processes mean they can be done perfectly well remotely, and even if they have widely geographically-distributed teams. Anecdotal, but we had a team that was split with 50% working remotely before Covid, and we saw an imp…

I think the real pain comes from many managers discovering that if they're going to have remote workers, might as well go whole hog and hire them in Bangalore for 1/10th the price instead of paying SV salaries.

Have you ever dealt with outsourced workers? They might cost 1/10th the price, but they will provide 1/20th the value. Every single time I deal with teams in India it's all about quantity, not quality. Some businesses might be fine with that, but for many it will destroy your business.

Re: CEOs are running companies from afar even as workers return to office

#262

Post by high_pathetic »

harimau777 wrote: post #66
high_pathetic wrote: post #39

So what? CEOs also get paid more. Where is this crying coming from? Create a company, become a CEO, do whatever you want.

Most people don't have the capital to create a company and become a CEO.

If most people lack certain things and other people do not, it doesn't give them the right to complain just because of that.

Companies can dictate how workers work, and it's up to the worker to decide whether they agree to these conditions or not.

It may not seem fair, but you have to look at the bigger picture, and understand how the situation came to be in the first place.

Re: CEOs are running companies from afar even as workers return to office

#263

Post by whamlastxmas »

soulofmischief wrote: post #45
zeroonetwothree wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see why you should be able to do anything about this legally as an employee. As a shareholder you have more of a claim.

An ethically aligned company goes to reasonable lengths to allow employees to become shareholders.

Ethically they’d return all profits to all employees regardless of ownership instead of leaching off the value of their labor

Re: CEOs are running companies from afar even as workers return to office

#264

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

eltoxo wrote: post #245
borplk wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and some people don't appreciate that some jobs really do require quiet focus for extended periods of time. Asking someone to be a programmer in a loud chaotic open office environment is not dissimilar to asking them to program while juggling two balls and sitting on a unicycle. Its just excess difficulty that doesn't need to be added on top of the jobs.

I just always assumed an "open office", really meaning a non-office, an empty building, was what was available for startups after the dot com bust in SF. Then after the fact we made up a bunch of bullshit as to why this is some brilliant idea. Then this idea spread as if it was some kind of technological advancement because it worked for small tech companies trying to not spend money on furniture and walls. We just a…

Nah it's because walls cost money and take up space. Open plan is cheaper with the trade-off that nobody likes it

Re: CEOs are running companies from afar even as workers return to office

#265

Post by rufus_foreman »

ryandrake wrote: post #136
theendisney4 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give them good plot lines like: i dont think ive seen you here before? Do you normally work remote?

It's probably just enough to dress them in business casual, and have them walk around the office looking very serious and busy, talking on their cellphones about business-y stuff. All that matters is the "buzz" and "hum" and "pop" of SeriousBusiness getting done.

Walk fast and look worried.

Re: CEOs are running companies from afar even as workers return to office

#267

Post by mulmen »

swader999 wrote: post #194
mulmen wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it 39x more stressful than destroying your body on a factory floor so you can feed your kids?

I would take the physical job any day over the leadership type manager roles if pay was the same. Way less stress and conflict. I volunteered for a sports club for the last decade plus, was president for half that. Did amazing things, hired tens of coaches etc. I have way more fun now that I've passed the torch and just help out at events. I got PTSD and burnout one particularly bad season while prez.

> I would take the physical job any day over the leadership type manager roles if pay was the same.

Nobody is suggesting this but you. It’s understandable that leadership would make more money. But 39x more money is harder to justify, especially with historical context.

Re: CEOs are running companies from afar even as workers return to office

#268

Post by Nasrudith »

whamlastxmas wrote: post #263
soulofmischief wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An ethically aligned company goes to reasonable lengths to allow employees to become shareholders.

Ethically they’d return all profits to all employees regardless of ownership instead of leaching off the value of their labor

That isn't ethical, that is a magical fairy realm where everyone else has 0% profit margins and you get 100% of the profit.

Re: CEOs are running companies from afar even as workers return to office

#269

Post by nsokolsky »

hintymad wrote: post #196

What I don't understand is why tech companies don't believe that they can enforce a high-performance culture without return-to-office. With or without remote work, the way we evaluate one's performance has not changed, right? Then, why can't we enforce the same expectation of engineers and teams? We break down a project into milestones, and we hold teams accountable to delivering the milestones on time and on budget.…

> we hold teams accountable to delivering the milestones on time and on budget

Holding someone "accountable" means firing them very quickly for a drop in performance. This is hard in large companies for many reasons.

Re: CEOs are running companies from afar even as workers return to office

#270

Post by closeparen »

teractiveodular wrote: post #126
ern wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the introduction of WFH during the pandemic hurt a lot of IT workers in the long-run. In the interests of “fairness” they are being ordered back to the office post-Covid even when their work processes mean they can be done perfectly well remotely, and even if they have widely geographically-distributed teams. Anecdotal, but we had a team that was split with 50% working remotely before Covid, and we saw an imp…

I think the real pain comes from many managers discovering that if they're going to have remote workers, might as well go whole hog and hire them in Bangalore for 1/10th the price instead of paying SV salaries.

Silicon Valley compensation in India and LatAm is broadly in line with US median for all software developers ($120k ish). It's not dramatically cheaper in absolute terms than the US low/medium cost of living markets. The idea is that it gets you the best of the best in India, vs. middle of the road in the US.
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