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Robot dentist performs first human procedure

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Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#261

Post by simianparrot »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #227
worstspotgain wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, and the fact that a sterilized robot is way less likely to transmit airborne pathogens than a dentist and an assistant wearing a surgical mask at best. Maybe not v.1.0b4, but I'd sign up for v.1.2.

Less likely to touch the mouse while looking at xrays. Can't imagine how many Germs are transfered between patients that way.

Every dentist I go to use single-use thin nitril or similar gloves. If they have to use any of the non-sterilisable equipment (like the mouse or kb), they take said glove off before use and put on a new one after.

I mean that’s just common sense, surely.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#262

Post by hattmall »

lovethevoid wrote: post #50
BobaFloutist wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But also going to the dentist already isn't exactly pleasant, the pokes, scrapes, drill noises, etc. Maybe we improve that first before sticking it in a robot? Dentists are definitely trying. The drills have gotten smaller and gentler, my dentist (and many others) offers a headset so you can listen to music/podcasts while getting your cleaning, and overall they make an effort to be less scoldy and more encouragey. T…

There are a lot of fields like this, where they have mostly been reduced to refinements but ultimately are still very barbaric procedures. All we've done is upgrade the stick (in this case, a nice shiny pick), but the procedure hasn't changed much at all. Too much of dentistry is still stuck on instant fix solutions. Take hard metal, scrape teeth. Something wrong on inside, just drill into it scrape it out and fill i…

There's huge inertia to change in Dentistry, we know that drilling and filling is basically the worst way to fix teeth. It's firmly established that ART/HVGIC is a much simpler and superior method for 95% of issues. Could be nearly 100% with proper patient education. The ART proponents have been saying this for 30 years, but it's now too hard to deny the superiority. You don't hear Dentist advocating for it though, instead they push fillings, crowns and root canals. Because the majority of a dentist work is actually repairing the inevitable problems that drilling and filling will cause. Drilled teeth will almost certainly need to be refilled and at a larger portion each time.

Loads of studies that show the effectiveness of ART just as well as composites.

And the difference is Novocaine shots and drilling out a tooth vs no numbing need, minimal cleaning with a pick and toothbrush and then essentially placing a ball of putty in the cavity. A ball of putty which actually chemically bonds with the tooth and releases fluoride to rebuild enamel.

But it's hard to charge $350 for something anyone with two fingers can do in about 15 minutes. And then of course if it breaks or comes out the fix isn't drilling an even larger area, it's just filling a smaller hole with putty.

https://www.practiceupdate.com/content/effectiveness-of-art-...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6526224/

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#263

Post by rscho »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #253
rscho wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All countries control rather strictly who can practice medicine. Yes, there is some amount of protectionism, but that happens almost everywhere. The reason is not only money, but also cultural issues. So yes, I expect that to be a valid criticism, but I don't think opening the floodgates would have the result you expect either. Access to care is a complex problem, and IMO not primarily limited by doc counts in the US…

> cultural issues Can you explain this part a bit more? Can you provide some concrete examples?

There is always a strong sense of national pride in medicine. Many people both inside and outside healthcare believe their nation has the best care, and make it an institution of sorts. It really seems stupid and insignificant, but the fact that foreigners are not feeling welcome has consequences. For example, US people often compare to german docs. Except I'm from Europe and having worked in the US, I can tell you I wouldn't go back to the US even for a million bucks. Why go somewhere you do 1.5x the hours, have a miserable quality of life and be treated like s##t, just to earn a little more ? So, if the US was to open the floodgates to foreign grads, I don't think the 'brain drain' would go the way people expect.

Within the US, the limitation of admission of US students into med school is another matter. And I think people are probably right to call out protectionism in this case. But I have no first hand experience, being a foreign graduate myself.

I'm just a random bloke having worked in Boston, though. So YMMV.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#264

Post by hattmall »

inhumantsar wrote: post #244
nerdjon wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and overall they make an effort to be less scoldy and more encouragey. Oh, 100%. Yeah there has for sure been progress. I do also recognize that my anxiety is not just "oh I don't like the dentist", I was lied too. That breaks that trust. I remember before I found my current dentist, I was having a ton of pain and I tried to find someone. I called them, explained the situation, explained the anxiety and where it wa…

I've had three dentists in my life. One lied to me, one stuck a toe over the line of informed consent and handed me an unexpected bill, the third half-assed his job leaving me with unnecessary work which ended up causing problems later in life. I'm sure there are great dentists out there who are honest and empathetic but I haven't met one and don't plan on rolling the dice again anytime soon.

I originally had a good dentist, never had a cavity, ever. He retired, next dentist I had a cavity nearly every time. I stopped going, then one of the fillings came out. I went to a new dentist and they said ok, we can fix it. Then drilled my tooth off and literally while I was numbed up and after ~30 minutes of drilling, they freak out and are like.. OOOOOHHHH, you need a root canal, it's $2000, or the other option is extraction.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#265

Post by n4r9 »

worstspotgain wrote: post #246
enumjorge wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm out of the loop, but is this a known issue? As in, are dental offices a higher risk location for diseases to spread?

Well your mucosa is more exposed than it normally is. Your mouth is acting like a receptacle, particularly when you're not wearing a dental dam. The probability that a larger pathogen-containing droplet will randomly fall in is much higher. Larger droplets normally fall straight to the ground. Smaller droplets can be sucked in by breathing in no matter what, so the probability for those is equivalent to just being ne…

I think OP was wondering whether any studies have been done to demonstrate a correlation between dental operations and infections. It does seem needless to worry about it until you have some idea of effect size.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#266

Post by robertlagrant »

sierra1011 wrote: post #190
robertlagrant wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's some things a human dentist does that I doubt this does - early detection of oral or skin cancer on the face being one of them I'm sure this can happen, but that's different to every dentist doing it. And a dentist doing harder to automate stuff while the 15 minutes go on instead of 2 hours means way more patients treated in the same time period, which means costs can hopefully come way down for some dentis…

I should add that my perspective is based in secondhand UK dental experience; in a hospital setting this would be used to improve care. In a private practice I have no doubt that it wouldn't affect the price handed to the customer.

> In a private practice I have no doubt that it wouldn't affect the price handed to the customer.

Why not?

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#267

Post by anticristi »

nerdjon wrote: post #19

Its cool tech, don't get me wrong. But maybe, before we remove any amount of comfort with another human being we look at wether all of the dental practices are actually backed by science (which there is some scruitiny over). But also going to the dentist already isn't exactly pleasant, the pokes, scrapes, drill noises, etc. Maybe we improve that first before sticking it in a robot? People already have a ton of anxiet…

I guess the dentist will simply push a few buttons, while a cheaper dental hygienist will do the comforting.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#268

Post by nox101 »

ben_w wrote: post #159
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #143

Sometimes the drill is necessary, but imagine how infrequently we'd need it if there were robots in our homes that could do an immaculate job with the daily cleaning.

I have good news: https://www.amazon.de/s?k=electric+toothbrush ;)

You've apparently been scammed as those don't work. If they did we wouldn't need flossing nor visits to the dentist

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#269

Post by worstspotgain »

n4r9 wrote: post #265
worstspotgain wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well your mucosa is more exposed than it normally is. Your mouth is acting like a receptacle, particularly when you're not wearing a dental dam. The probability that a larger pathogen-containing droplet will randomly fall in is much higher. Larger droplets normally fall straight to the ground. Smaller droplets can be sucked in by breathing in no matter what, so the probability for those is equivalent to just being ne…

I think OP was wondering whether any studies have been done to demonstrate a correlation between dental operations and infections. It does seem needless to worry about it until you have some idea of effect size.

Those are likely to be pathogen-specific. The paper I linked for instance has a reference that dentists have a 10x risk of chronic Hep B than the rest of the population, but that doesn't translate to Hep C.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#270

Post by anticristi »

There is something about the "moving humans" part in the article that doesn't hold water.

From what I noticed, dentists use fingers 4 and 5 to track the movement of the head or jaw. I saw no such tracking in this robot, with the article simply making a handwavy "trust AI" argument.

In general, I think if robots are to overdo humans, they should do that with improved sensors and actuators, not just "enough AI".

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