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Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

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Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#261

Post by mschuster91 »

viraptor wrote: post #146
mensetmanusman wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an audible difference after being in a high temp high humidity environment for 5 years :)

Audible difference from an OPTICAL cable not corroding at ends? One where the gold plated parts are only the frame that holds it in the socket?

Well, there is always an ADC and amplifier stage involved, at some point you have to cross to the analog domain - and there's an absolutely wild difference between a central, decent and expensive ADC/amplifier and whatever crap ships in "active" loudspeakers that bring their own ADC/amplifier.

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#262

Post by dagw »

jjulius wrote: post #169

This is entirely just my own opinion... I completely understand why you might not want a slow pool in a competition like this, but the emphasis on it being "not ideal for record setting" is weird to me. I guess I just don't understand the constant quest to set better and better records. Do we really always need to be hitting new world records? What's the point of that, why does that need to be a thing? If records lik…

I guess I just don't understand the constant quest to set better and better records.

Money. All else being equal, setting a new world record will lead to you earning more money, compared to 'just' winning gold. Both because there many cases are cash bonuses tied to world records, and from a sponsorship point of view it is easier to 'sell' a world record holder. Most people know that Usain Bolt holds the 100m world record and Olympic record, you have to be pretty into sprinting to know who won gold at the 100m last Olympics.

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#263

Post by madaxe_again »

askvictor wrote: post #229
madaxe_again wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually did a fairly lengthy research project on pretty much exactly this as a physics undergraduate - I wasn’t looking at swimming specifically, but rather boundary separation and Reynolds number in an open channel of varying depth. The setup was simple - a constant head vessel to provide a constant but adjustable flow of water in from one end, and a little plastic boat sat in the middle of the channel, attached…

At some (shallow) point, does a 'ground effect' kick in? Or any sort of constructive interference?

Yes, in a very shallow flow you retain laminar flow - but you wouldn’t be able to swim in it, as we’re talking 15mm or so.

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#264

Post by xanderlewis »

rurban wrote: post #260

Of course it's slower. CFD simulations would also prove that. But maybe they wanted not to be too many world records be broken, to damage control the apparent doping problem. You can easily see on TV now, who is doped and who's not. All the dopers do have dark purple faces after the swim, usually the middle swimmers from the US, GB, AUS, Ireland, F, China, whilst the non-dopers keep their usual skin color. Italy, Hun…

So you’re claiming the American, British, Australian, Irish, French and Chinese swimmers are all on drugs? And that everyone apart from you is unaware of that fact?

Right.

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#266

Post by BoringTimesGang »

viraptor wrote: post #27
lou1306 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But a lot of the swimmers themselves are not able to go anywhere near their personal bests: this is a sharp reversal from past Olympics, where many athletes reached new personal records. Plus, they are the worldwide foremost experts on competitive swimming. Definitely I would be more interested in their evaluation of a swimming pool rather than trust "research results" from the company that built the pool in question…

> they are the worldwide foremost experts on competitive swimming On swimming, sure. But not fluid dynamics. It's a bit like music listeners shouldn't be treated as experts on music quality, or you'll get the audiophile nuts who need gold connectors. Some combination of personal experience for comfort and objective measurements for performance would be much better.

You're comparing the science of electronics and sound (well understood, rigorous) with sports science (cesspit of low-N, hard to study well). In sports, anecdata are valuable - putting guff in a journal doesn't make it any less guff.

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#267

Post by BoringTimesGang »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #241
_heimdall wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't necessarily need to do an in depth study of the pool when every Olympic swimmer in it fails to meet their own personal records. A study may be useful to understand why depth still matters beyond the 2m point, but a study isn't needed to show that swimmer performance is impacted.

> You don't necessarily need to do an in depth study of the pool when every Olympic swimmer in it fails to meet their own personal records. This is a weird standard. Out of 200 people doing anything, how many do you expect to set a personal record? Say you drive to the grocery store. Are you setting a time record for the trip more than 0.5% of the time?

The motivation of a commute is not comparable to the motivation of a swimmer in 4th place of a medal event, etc.

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#268

Post by BoringTimesGang »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #250
Scarblac wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These athletes plan their whole training and fitness regime for years so that they are at their absolute best at this particular day. Tbh I don't do much of that sort of thing for my grocery store trips at all.

> These athletes plan their whole training and fitness regime for years so that they are at their absolute best at this particular day. The only way this could actually happen is if they intentionally sandbag their performance starting several years in advance -- and continuing indefinitely -- which would prevent them from qualifying for the Olympics in the first place. It's not a possibility.

Or it could happen that the training, diet and injury-avoidance regime for long term success is different from that for short term optimisation. As it is for many, many sports.

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#269

Post by BoringTimesGang »

hot_gril wrote: post #186
lacoolj wrote: post #96

So it's more shallow, which is a problem. Like if you trained for track on pavement vs rubber vs sand, you're going to have different results, even if "everyone has the same environment" not everyone's body will have the same relative response. I don't like that assumption that just because it's the same for everyone means the difference will affect everyone the same. Are France competition pools across the country j…

Plenty of pro sports have variation in conditions. World Cup soccer is played outdoors with rain, heat, whatever. Rain matters even more in Le Mans, where time records are being set. It doesn't really matter as long as it's cool to watch.

We've just finished Copa America, where players and managers complained about the pitch and its dimensions.

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#270

Post by thaumasiotes »

BoringTimesGang wrote: post #267
thaumasiotes wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't necessarily need to do an in depth study of the pool when every Olympic swimmer in it fails to meet their own personal records. This is a weird standard. Out of 200 people doing anything, how many do you expect to set a personal record? Say you drive to the grocery store. Are you setting a time record for the trip more than 0.5% of the time?

The motivation of a commute is not comparable to the motivation of a swimmer in 4th place of a medal event, etc.

So what? Is the motivation of a swimmer in 2nd place in a non-Olympic event comparable? Is the motivation of a swimmer who wants to work toward the Olympics comparable? Is the motivation of a swimmer trying out for the Olympics comparable?

Every Olympic athlete, with the possible exception of the Jamaican bobsled team, has been equally motivated at dozens or hundreds of officially-measured points in the recent past. Why do we expect personal records at the Olympics?

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