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Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

nature.com

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Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#261

Post by honkycat »

core_dumped wrote: post #83
TechDebtDevin wrote: post #17

PSA: My buddy shot himself in the head while we were on shrooms in our twenties. He thought he meant God, took a shower picked up a gun and shot himself in the head. While I've had trips since then and do get benefits from those experiences. People without experience should be careful, especially if you have a history of mental illness. He did have a history to some degree but not overtly.

Similar thing. My good friend and early college roommate took his own life with a gun after having a bad trip. I wasn’t there for it, but the way he described it he felt ridiculed and deserted by his old high school friends during the trip. He was left alone to deal with these feelings. His mood post trip became increasingly abysmal. He became highly paranoid, and started questioning the loyalty of the people close t…

I am sorry to hear about your friend.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#262

Post by progmetaldev »

raincom wrote: post #237
progmetaldev wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was already predisposed to anxiety, but after using LSD quite a bit in my teens, my anxiety took over my waking life. During high anxiety and panic attacks, I often experience dissociation/depersonalization effects. I feel like I am disconnected from myself, and watching what is happening, like in a dream. The only thing I really connect with is the anxiety and fear. Over the years, through therapy and medication,…

It is very interesting to note that the same depersonalization is experienced after a long, deep meditative practice. I realized that this meditative depersonalization was same as when I was really mad.

I actually had to change my meditation practice from deeper states to mindfulness meditation, because I would get that depersonalization feeling. Strangely enough, being angry would break me out of that state.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#263

Post by Grimblewald »

RamblingCTO wrote: post #181

Lots of people have a lot of negative stuff to say, but my take is: if you do psychedelics, you need to do the work and you need a firm ground before that. We have research that it might help with PTSD, depression, etc. but it's not like you just take it and you're done. It's a powerful substance and with power comes responsibility. I like to think of it more as an enhancer as to what's inside your head anyways. If t…

I walked in psychedellics a bit fucked, though id been doing the work to get better. I was simply at an impasse with no way forward. For me, psychedellics shook things up in a way that allowed for a level of introspection and wrangling of the self the allowed for meaningful change. For example, i went from hopeless alcoholic with little to no positive outlook in life to having a healthy relationship with alcohol (and other substances) meaning general abstainence but socially acceptable levels of partaking where appropriate.

This is of course not everyones story, many i know who took similar substances ended up in much worse positions.Some had even been doing the work to get better also. For the time being I think theres an element of luck, but i hope we figure out how to remove the luck component and make it a science.

The way I'd explain it Is that whatever loss function the mind uses to optimize the personality was stuck in a poor local optima and psychedellics knocked that marble right loose. There was a time i was a bit 'lost' in it all but i was able to get back on track in a reasonable timeframe and through the change in perspectove and way of thinking kept improving well past were id gotten to prior to that.

Despite what positive things i have to say about it, i wouldnt recommend it, unless it truly is your last option. i spent years with psychologists and paychiatrists prior to that. Ive seen many go down the path of the illicit and not get better but much much worse, and more that went down professional help based pathways who got better more consistently, and got worse far more rarely.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#264

Post by mike_ivanov »

tambourine_man wrote: post #206
muzani wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully in this country, we don't revoke licenses for telling people to submit health data.

I don’t know or care which country you’re in, but advising patients against vaccines is a license-losing offense in most of the civilized world. And that’s only the mildest of consequences, you’d be facing criminal charges as well in most countries.

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/vaccination-...

Come arrest us.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#265

Post by muzani »

tambourine_man wrote: post #206
muzani wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully in this country, we don't revoke licenses for telling people to submit health data.

I don’t know or care which country you’re in, but advising patients against vaccines is a license-losing offense in most of the civilized world. And that’s only the mildest of consequences, you’d be facing criminal charges as well in most countries.

Informed consent is a principle in medical ethics, medical law and media studies, that a patient must have sufficient information and understanding before making decisions about their medical care. Pertinent information may include risks and benefits of treatments, alternative treatments, the patient's role in treatment, and their right to refuse treatment. In most systems, healthcare providers have a legal and ethical responsibility to ensure that a patient's consent is informed. This principle applies more broadly than healthcare intervention, for example to conduct research and to disclose a person's medical information.

The booster shots are not mandatory in most countries. Your doctor should have informed you of the benefits and side effects of the booster shots, so there's no point in commenting on it here.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#266

Post by jojobas »

sjm wrote: post #257
jojobas wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Betting your life to get a hallucination is not worth it even at 1:10000 odds. Guess what - you're missing out on a fentanyl high, so awesome that people sell all they have to get more!

Mushrooms have saved more people than they have harmed, I guarantee you. I believe you have a very warped or misguided understanding of what exactly psilocybin is and I'd encourage you to learn.

Hofmann was a mistake, and so was Leary.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#267

Post by cthalupa »

newzisforsukas wrote: post #226
cthalupa wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My qualifications for saying "I don't believe there are any known effects that match that" is... reading quite a lot of clinical research on their usage, and not having seen anything that would match those effects. You'll notice I qualified that statement in two ways - both that it is limited to my personal understanding and that of 'known' effects. I'm not really sure what you're arguing - neither of these links ind…

It seemed to me that you were downplaying this person's experience and were suggesting that they were possibly given other substances. > neither of these links indicate otherwise The articles I provided were to back my own statements that I made, not to refute yours, and I am not sure how that wasn't clear. > I'm not really sure what you're arguing I am saying that there really isn't a large enough body of scientific…

> It seemed to me that you were downplaying this person's experience

I'm not.

> were suggesting that they were possibly given other substances.

I am. There are a lot of people buying mislabeled products thinking they are ingesting chocolate made out of mushrooms that, in fact, are not. There are also people who sell other mushrooms, such as amanita muscaria, as your garden variety magic mushrooms. (I'm not aware of anything that would cause this with it, either, but it's got significantly less study and anecdotal reports.)

> I am saying that there really isn't a large enough body of scientific evidence yet to conclude definitively that there are no possible mechanisms that could cause this effect, as you stated. Humans aren't uniform systems.

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about there being definitively no possible mechanisms. I said there are, to my knowledge, not known pharmacological mechanisms. If you want to dispute that, you're going to need to find some known pharmacological mechanism.

> HPPD comes to mind, serotonin syndrome, all sorts of possibilities that do not necessitate it being caused by another substance.

HPPD can cause a variety of visual phenomenon. That is not the same thing as having a 3 week long headache. SS is a possibility but now you're into multi-drug interactions, and I'd argue the blame is more on the MAOI or SSRI - those things interact with everything. But even still, the majority of SS cases subside in https://www.pharmacytimes.com/view/assessing-risk-for-seroto... (Thomas has done several meta-analysis on this subject so he's about as informed on this topic as you can be.)

When something doesn't fit the current model of something, you ask questions about it - that's the starting point to pretty much any investigation. I'm unsure why you find this so egregious.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#268

Post by kazinator »

zild3d wrote: post #182
RamblingCTO wrote: post #181

Lots of people have a lot of negative stuff to say, but my take is: if you do psychedelics, you need to do the work and you need a firm ground before that. We have research that it might help with PTSD, depression, etc. but it's not like you just take it and you're done. It's a powerful substance and with power comes responsibility. I like to think of it more as an enhancer as to what's inside your head anyways. If t…

> We have research that it might help with PTSD, depression, etc. but it's not like you just take it and you're done. Worth noting the research is on psilocybin with supportive psychotherapy, not just take some mushrooms you got from a guy and have at it. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/newsroom/news-releases/...

So, take some mushrooms from a guy, lie down on the couch, and tell him about your mother.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#269

Post by tambourine_man »

muzani wrote: post #265
tambourine_man wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know or care which country you’re in, but advising patients against vaccines is a license-losing offense in most of the civilized world. And that’s only the mildest of consequences, you’d be facing criminal charges as well in most countries.

Informed consent is a principle in medical ethics, medical law and media studies, that a patient must have sufficient information and understanding before making decisions about their medical care. Pertinent information may include risks and benefits of treatments, alternative treatments, the patient's role in treatment, and their right to refuse treatment. In most systems, healthcare providers have a legal and ethic…

There’s a non-zero risk in every action taken.

You may choke and die when swallowing a pill. Hit by a bus on your way to the doctor.

Every approved vaccine poses a much, much lower risk than the disease it prevents.

Warning about vaccine risks is at the very least a logical fallacy and most likely a hidden, eerie superstitious agenda.

Re: Psilocybin desynchronizes the human brain

#270

Post by newzisforsukas »

cthalupa wrote: post #267
newzisforsukas wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seemed to me that you were downplaying this person's experience and were suggesting that they were possibly given other substances. > neither of these links indicate otherwise The articles I provided were to back my own statements that I made, not to refute yours, and I am not sure how that wasn't clear. > I'm not really sure what you're arguing I am saying that there really isn't a large enough body of scientific…

> It seemed to me that you were downplaying this person's experience I'm not. > were suggesting that they were possibly given other substances. I am. There are a lot of people buying mislabeled products thinking they are ingesting chocolate made out of mushrooms that, in fact, are not. There are also people who sell other mushrooms, such as amanita muscaria, as your garden variety magic mushrooms. (I'm not aware of a…

I will try to be more charitable in the future with my interpretations.

But as for mechanism, maybe up/down regulation of sertogenic systems, individual specific conditions (kidney disease, liver disease), etc?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03768...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6322052/

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