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Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

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Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#261

Post by shrimp_emoji »

smarm52 wrote: post #103

The comments and the article don't mention the positives of "cash"; Physical currency. And really, it's more trouble than it's worth. The number one benefit of going full cashless is just controlling inflation. It's MUCH easier to regulate supply if the supply isn't physical. Also it's expensive to make and expensive to maintain for little real benefit. And to solve the problem of vulnerable people not having economi…

> The number one benefit of going full cashless is just controlling inflation. It's MUCH easier to regulate supply if the supply isn't physical.

I don't think you appreciate the experiment you're enrolling yourself into here though. There are those who would rather not suffer negative interest rates and whatever else "for the greater good as seen fit by The Fed". Fiat currency was a great financial innovation, but it has sort of mixed results, and this is turning it up to 11.

It's kind of like saying, "It's going to be MUCH easier to catch criminals if the government has a live feed from everyone's visual cortex via microchip." And you're right, but...

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#262

Post by threeseed »

shrimp_emoji wrote: post #259
threeseed wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. We shouldn't make it easer for criminals to conduct terrorism, human trafficking, fraud etc just to make it slightly more economical for startups to compete with Visa/Mastercard.

To rephrase: we should make it harder for everyone to do stuff because of the tiny minority criminals we want law enforcement to catch (and whose job we need to make easier by way of crime-preempting hacks in every system criminals might use because otherwise it would be too difficult for law enforcement to do their job).

Yes. That's how society works.

If the priority was to make life as easy as possible for everyone then we wouldn't have laws at all.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#263

Post by sbarre »

1over137 wrote: post #215
nick_ wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can tell when people have absolutely no idea what they're talking about when they think downtown cores are where rich people live.

Outside the USA, including Canada, downtown cores are where (many, but not all) rich people live.

Yes please tell me more about where I live and you don't.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#264

Post by sbarre »

Dig1t wrote: post #246
sbarre wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you cite an example of where Canadian protests by "lefties" took over a major public road for weeks on end, and disrupted the lives of thousands of citizens, harassing them, depriving them of sleep, preventing their ability to get to/from their homes and businesses? I can tell you're already very convinced of who was right and wrong in this and you're trying to make this a left vs right thing, but there are limit…

"COVID-denying racists." Have you seen videos or pictures of the protestors? They were all different races, there wasn't an ounce of "racism" anywhere in there.

My friend, my parents live right near where this happened.. I had to go help them many times.

I don't need to see "videos or pictures" I saw it with my own eyes, repeatedly.

I saw first hand the confederate flags, the screamed slurs at passerbys, the aggressive racist-coded chants and associated violent rhetoric..

One night my mom got screamed at by a drunken asshole waving a big confederate flag, she was shaking so badly she didn't sleep that night..

So your hearsay "there wasn't an ounce of racism anywhere in there" can take a hike.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#265

Post by makeitdouble »

throw0101b wrote: post #236
derektank wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding regulatory burdens to voluntary transactions doesn't really seem to be in the spirit of expanding freedom to me. There's certainly an argument to be made that the privacy benefits or the inclusionary benefits are worth the hit to people's economic freedom, but don't pretend there isn't a tradeoff here

> Adding regulatory burdens to voluntary transactions doesn't really seem to be in the spirit of expanding freedom to me. Lots of folks are unbanked and cannot get credit (cards): * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unbanked It would given them more freedom to participate in the economy.

The right move here would be to force banks to accept them and/or as a society pay for a system where they get access to electronic money.

Basically make the effort to move forward, not make the pledge to stay behind forever.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#266

Post by _visgean »

snakeyjake wrote: post #173
chihuahua wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For credit cards, my access can be disabled when the two networks are coerced into blacklisting me. For cash, the imaginary evil powers would have to convince tens of thousands of individual stores to do the same. And even then, it would be impossible to enforce, because with a cash payment, there is no record that could be checked to enforce compliance.

> For cash, the imaginary evil powers would have to convince tens of thousands of individual stores to do the same. You seem to be implying that this is somewhat unlikely. History is full of this exact thing happening. Recent history. Until the 1970s in the US it was legal, and common, for businesses to refuse to do business with a woman without a male's permission. There were only a precious few municipalities where…

> Grocery stores until the mid-1900s did not actually sell products to women. Women would pick out and receive products and a bill would be sent to her male supervisor for his approval and payment.

I find this hard to believe, how would that work in large and anonymous cities where nobody knows each other? If a woman went grocery shopping they would send the bill to where exactly, just a random address she gives them? What if she gives them fake address?

I doubt that shops would refuse for example a widow if she had money from military or inheritence, also men were often away and the women did not just starve to death.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#267

Post by makeitdouble »

jpnguyen wrote: post #14

Japan has tap payments for public transit and restaurants for decades, while simultaneously being very cash driven. Will be interesting to see how the cash meta evolves with different countries and cultures.

Cash is progressively disappearing, in particular as PayPay has gotten foothold.

The main gaps that were filled:

- interpersonal payment is now easy. 10 people eat together, splitting the bill is now sharing a QR code and 30s of operation for each, no exchange of contact, nothing finicky, and it can also be done later (no tap needed)

- phone networks are fast enough to make the transactions near instaneous. We're talking 3s at most in a sheet mobile environment. 1s with a wired POS.

- phone are secure enough, being already the central part of our electronic life.

All in all, cash will always be used somewhere, but even grandma's vegetable stands are starting to accept QR codes.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#268

Post by adamomada »

sofixa wrote: post #208
elforce002 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happened in Canada strongly indicates that a cashless society is as bad as it sounds. China did it and, well, we don't have to guess what happened next. Canada, a Western country with lots of "freedoms", did what it did because those truckers, etc... were a "threat" to "democracy". I advocate for every form of payment to be conducted without restrictions: cash, deposits, debit, credit, crypto, etc... That's true…

> Canada, a Western country with lots of "freedoms", did what it did because those truckers, etc... were a "threat" to "democracy". Can you stop exaggerating for dramatic effect? You can agree with them all you want, but occupying public places for weeks in a highly disruptive normal is a threat, yes. Anywhere on the planet, try pulling the shit those people did (half of what they were protesting about didn't exist,…

You’re gonna end up with a shitty society then. I’m one sane person who could agree which invalidates your conclusion

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#269

Post by throw0101b »

makeitdouble wrote: post #265
throw0101b wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Adding regulatory burdens to voluntary transactions doesn't really seem to be in the spirit of expanding freedom to me. Lots of folks are unbanked and cannot get credit (cards): * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unbanked It would given them more freedom to participate in the economy.

The right move here would be to force banks to accept them and/or as a society pay for a system where they get access to electronic money. Basically make the effort to move forward, not make the pledge to stay behind forever.

> The right move here would be to force banks to accept them and/or as a society pay for a system where they get access to electronic money.

It's not just about forcing banks, but also about the people trusting banks and institutions, which have historically not been kind to (say) black people. Lots of folks could perhaps (e.g.) not be able to keep minimum balances that would avoid monthly service fees, then you get dinged for NSF, but of course you can pay for overdraft coverage.

It's why some suggest (government) post office accounts are a useful tool for dealing with this: profit is not a motive, so all of these hoops can hopefully be avoided.

Re: Canada 'sleepwalking' into cashless society, consumer advocates warn

#270

Post by sbarre »

adamiscool8 wrote: post #151
sbarre wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has never been the expensive part. The Glebe, Sandy Hill, Rockliffe, Island Park, etc.. All those parts of Ottawa's core have always been more afluent than the downtown by the Parliament. The rise of new condos in that area has probably improved it somewhat in the last 10 years but it's still far from "afluent".

Point stands regardless, but it is relatively affluent to it's surroundings here: https://neighbourhoodequity.ca/economic-maps/

Lol what? Point stands regardless? What does that mean?

- "Oh my point was proven wrong but I'm going to stick to it anyways? Because fact shmacts?"

Your whole argument was that the convoy was shut down because it inconvenienced the wealthy locals.. Which is completely not what happened.

It's ok to say you were wrong.

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