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Simple tasks showing reasoning breakdown in state-of-the-art LLMs

arxiv.org

261–270 of 393 posts

Re: Simple tasks showing reasoning breakdown in state-of-the-art LLMs

#261

Genuine curiosity here and trying to temper my own selective memory : does it seem like skepticism is growing on the AI front in the news recently?

That depends which story will sell more ads.

Elon Bust saying it’s going to replace us gets many eyes on ads even if it’s a dumbass statement.

So just depends on the demographic your news sells ads too.

Re: Simple tasks showing reasoning breakdown in state-of-the-art LLMs

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? You think individuals are incapable of reasoning without training first?

Do you think they are? We haven't had a case of individuals without training in like 10 000 years.

And judging by some comments here, humans must have gotten dumber since then. Or we would never have invented writing, agriculture or even basic clothing.

"This problem is actually not that easy, the average person couldn't solve it either, especially if the numbers were bigger", "Yet another cherrypicked clickbait study to make LLMs look bad, those people are just scared of being made obsolete", etc.

Re: Simple tasks showing reasoning breakdown in state-of-the-art LLMs

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me more?

Language is only sequential in the form it is transmitted (verbally). There is no reason that sequential statements are generated sequentially in the brain. Quite the opposite, really, if you consider rules of grammar. I really wish most of the LLM folks just took a few courses in linguistics. It would avoid a lot of noise.

Any pointers for where to start? Linguistics is dense, the terminology is a slog, it seems huge, and I was never clear that there was real value to be gained. But it's always useful to be more informed.

Re: Simple tasks showing reasoning breakdown in state-of-the-art LLMs

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People keep saying it because that's literally how LLMs work. They run Montecarlo sampling over a very impressive latent linguistic space. These models are not fundamentally different than the Markov chains of yore except that these latent representations are incredibly powerful. We haven't even started to approach the largest problem which is moving beyond what is essentially a greedy token level search of this ling…

The best compression is some form of understanding

The best compression relies on understanding. What LLM is is mostly data how humans use words. We understand how to make this data (which is a compression of human text) and use it (generate something). AKA it’s “production rules”, but statistical.

The only issue is ambiguity. What can be generated strongly depends on the order of the tokens. A slight variation can change the meaning and the result is worthless. Understanding is the guardrail against meaningless statement and LLMs lack it.

Re: Simple tasks showing reasoning breakdown in state-of-the-art LLMs

#265
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'It's impossible to plan without an internal monologue.' - Sorry, but I disagree with this. I have no 'internal voice' or monologue - whenever I see a problem, my brain actually and fully models it using images. I believe 25% of the population doesn't have the internal monologue which you're referring to and this has been tested and confirmed. I highly recommend listening to this Lex Friedman podcast episode to get a…

Can you draw a picture of an example of what you see when you think about something?

Sure - with the Alice example, when I saw the problem I came up with a really simple visual example of Alice having 3 sisters and 4 brothers. When I visualized it I saw Alice standing next to 3 other women (her sisters) and her 4 brothers standing close by. When I imagined asking her brother how many sisters he has, I could see that Alice was standing there next to 3 other women and thus came up with the answer of 4. Does this make sense?

Re: Simple tasks showing reasoning breakdown in state-of-the-art LLMs

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually did a full write-up on this here fyi: https://photonlines.substack.com/p/intuitive-and-visual-guid... . You can skip most of this and scroll down to the end-section called 'The Mental Model for Understanding LLMs' where I try to map how transformers are able to mimic human thinking. I think that comparing them to auto-associative / auto-regressive networks is actually a really good analogy FYI and I do bel…

We have no idea how human thinking works and no idea what consciousness is. I'm getting so tired of listening to software engineers LARP pseudo neuroscientists with 6th grade level insights. >Of course, the [AI] brain isn’t ‘conscious.’ It doesn’t have any survival instincts which we humans do. Bruh...

So instead of shouting insults, maybe you can shine some light on how anything stated there is wrong? Everything that I said there is true - we don't have a good mapping of what consciousness is - if you want to add some insights add them instead of making insulting and useless statements on HN.

Re: Simple tasks showing reasoning breakdown in state-of-the-art LLMs

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually did a full write-up on this here fyi: https://photonlines.substack.com/p/intuitive-and-visual-guid... . You can skip most of this and scroll down to the end-section called 'The Mental Model for Understanding LLMs' where I try to map how transformers are able to mimic human thinking. I think that comparing them to auto-associative / auto-regressive networks is actually a really good analogy FYI and I do bel…

An article this long needs a table of contents IMO.

Will note this and try to add a TOC next time I do this sort of write-up. This article wasn't supposed to be this long - I originally meant to make a more compact version but kept on finding more things which I needed to add in order to map to a correct 'mental model' of what ChatGPT is.

Re: Simple tasks showing reasoning breakdown in state-of-the-art LLMs

#268
post #84
post #52

I just played the game and sent ChatGPT (free, I think 3.5) "Alice has 5 sisters and 3 bothers. How many sister's does Alice's bother have?" The whole thing felt like interacting with your typical support rep who's friendly but otherwise has no common sense and intuition about the thing they're supporting. In other words, it felt like I was interacting with a typical "not so smart but friendly and overconfident" huma…

>"Alice has 5 sisters and 3 bothers. How many sister's does Alice's bother have?" To be fair -- you wrote "bother" twice, and "sister's" with an apostrophe. Technically the question makes no sense like that.

ChatGPT is really great at handling typos.

Re: Simple tasks showing reasoning breakdown in state-of-the-art LLMs

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best compression is some form of understanding

The best compression relies on understanding. What LLM is is mostly data how humans use words. We understand how to make this data (which is a compression of human text) and use it (generate something). AKA it’s “production rules”, but statistical. The only issue is ambiguity. What can be generated strongly depends on the order of the tokens. A slight variation can change the meaning and the result is worthless. Unde…

You seem to entirely miss how attention layers work...

Re: Simple tasks showing reasoning breakdown in state-of-the-art LLMs

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'it will not scale well.' When we humans learn that we make a mistake - we make a note and we hold the correct answer in memory - the next time we're prompted with a similar prompt, we can use our old memories to come up with the correct solution. I just did a simple test for this same exact problem using ChatGPT 3.5: 'Can you reformulate the following problem using Prolog? When you exec…

What if you prompt it "You seem to have accidentally included Alice. The correct answer should be 4"?

Yup this is a good example. This is because the model has no conception of what 'causality' is or how to try to come up with a correct 'model' - humans have a visual system which helps them out, but for LLMs I can definitely see your point and yup in these instances - if you feed in garbage data then yeah - you will get garbage out.
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