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I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

awesomekling.substack.com

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Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#261

Post by dizhn »

I take this as very good news because like Andreas I am much more interested in the browser too. (I never liked the OS aesthetic they are targeting when it was current and I don't care for it now).

Though I wish they still targeted Serenity OS. I guess the expectation is for someone to fork the more general browser to Serenity at a later date. That's not a bad plan either since the incompleteness of the OS is bound to hold the browser back.

This whole thing is one of my most favorite things to happen in open source software. Andreas already succeeded in getting people to look at OS and browser development in a new way. All the best to them.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#262

Post by MeImCounting »

throwanem wrote: post #219
MeImCounting wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok yeah but the thing about the knife is just not true, a knifes not sharp until you de-burr it and if you just continue to grind the edge youre going to just be building a bigger burr and removing metal, eventually the knife will be ground away but thats beside the point. Good knife sharpening does only need a bit of grinding until you reach the grit you want and then de-burr but youre not going to make it dull by c…

Sure you will, because a knife blade good enough to hold an edge at all isn't homogeneous. Good high-carbon steel is harder to make than mild steel. It used to be a lot harder to make; carburization in ambient atmosphere takes an enormous amount of time and fuel, and even then is hit-or-miss. Because that's so, and also because the brittleness that makes high-carbon steel great for knife edges also makes for a very f…

Thats a good point the knives he was familiar with were probably case hardened! So you would get to mild steel just like you said if you kept removing steel.

Nowadays though, knives are generally homogenous or some other composition like san-mai which will have the good steel in the center all the way through so even if you grind it down to a toothpick most modern knives will still have the good steel on the edge. Modern metallurgy means we can have high hardness, high toughness, high wear resistance and high corrosion resistance all in one composition. See Magnacut and other modern powder metallurgy knife steels: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/03/25/cpm-magnacut/

I am sure there are still some case hardened knives but for the most part case hardening is a historical technique. Same goes for the type of laminated construction you describe above.

All told the metaphor makes sense historically and in context but taken in the context of modern knives it makes less sense. This is interesting in and of itself because the meaning of metaphors and sayings can change drastically across time and social context.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#263

Post by lukan »

skeaker wrote: post #190
adastra22 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot tell if this is sarcasm or not.

It isn't. I can without any sarcasm disable all of that in about a minute or two, and for the most part see no reason to do so in the first place (the worst bit is probably sponsored links on new tabs but that's also the easiest to remove). Acting like this invalidates the existence of the whole browser is what makes no sense to me. Also Windows configuration is terrible.

"Acting like this invalidates the existence of the whole browser is what makes no sense to me."

They market themself as standing for the open and free web and digital rights and privacy and what not. And then have the browser spying on every user by default with integrated ads.

So sure, you and me deactivate it, but a common person who just fell for the marketing and who does not even know what "telemetry" is, will have it enabled. The only reason I use their browser is, because there is no alternative - yet.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#264

Post by skeaker »

lukan wrote: post #263
skeaker wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't. I can without any sarcasm disable all of that in about a minute or two, and for the most part see no reason to do so in the first place (the worst bit is probably sponsored links on new tabs but that's also the easiest to remove). Acting like this invalidates the existence of the whole browser is what makes no sense to me. Also Windows configuration is terrible.

"Acting like this invalidates the existence of the whole browser is what makes no sense to me." They market themself as standing for the open and free web and digital rights and privacy and what not. And then have the browser spying on every user by default with integrated ads. So sure, you and me deactivate it, but a common person who just fell for the marketing and who does not even know what "telemetry" is, will h…

Transparent telemetry is not spying. I'll agree that the ads are annoying but they're about as unobtrusive as you can make them. This is not the catastrophe you believe it to be, and even if it were, the big scary evil worse-than-Google Mozilla allows forks and Librewolf exists.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#265

Post by skeaker »

shiroiushi wrote: post #233
Aurornis wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is an extremely uncharitable view of Firefox and an outrageously generous view of Windows. The things you listed take 2 checkboxes in a new tab window, 2 checkboxes in settings (which has a search bar that takes you right to them by just searching "studies" or "data collection"), 2 checkboxes in settings (search "suggestions"), 2 clicks (right click the pocket button and click hide)... The only tricky one is I…

How big a deal it is depends on what you're comparing to. Yeah, at first, when I read his post, I was wondering if it was a joke or something, with so many checkboxes in different places. Then I got to the point about Windows and realized he's right: compared to Windows, all those steps in Firefox actually aren't that bad, and actually stay unchecked unlike Windows which happily changes things back.

Thank you. And I would even say that settings aren't really even in different places, they're all either on the Settings page or on the element in question. New tab settings are on the new tab page, and you disable the pocket button by right clicking the pocket button. Not exactly rocket science, especially compared to Windows.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#266

Post by skeaker »

account42 wrote: post #244
shiroiushi wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How big a deal it is depends on what you're comparing to. Yeah, at first, when I read his post, I was wondering if it was a joke or something, with so many checkboxes in different places. Then I got to the point about Windows and realized he's right: compared to Windows, all those steps in Firefox actually aren't that bad, and actually stay unchecked unlike Windows which happily changes things back.

> all those steps in Firefox actually aren't that bad, and actually stay unchecked Not really, they keep adding new checkboxes that are of course checked by default.

Source? You may be thinking of Windows.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#267

Post by lukan »

skeaker wrote: post #264
lukan wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Acting like this invalidates the existence of the whole browser is what makes no sense to me." They market themself as standing for the open and free web and digital rights and privacy and what not. And then have the browser spying on every user by default with integrated ads. So sure, you and me deactivate it, but a common person who just fell for the marketing and who does not even know what "telemetry" is, will h…

Transparent telemetry is not spying. I'll agree that the ads are annoying but they're about as unobtrusive as you can make them. This is not the catastrophe you believe it to be, and even if it were, the big scary evil worse-than-Google Mozilla allows forks and Librewolf exists.

"Transparent telemetry is not spying. "

It is not transparent, if the information is hidden in the settings under a unclear name.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#268

Post by skeaker »

lukan wrote: post #267
skeaker wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transparent telemetry is not spying. I'll agree that the ads are annoying but they're about as unobtrusive as you can make them. This is not the catastrophe you believe it to be, and even if it were, the big scary evil worse-than-Google Mozilla allows forks and Librewolf exists.

"Transparent telemetry is not spying. " It is not transparent, if the information is hidden in the settings under a unclear name.

Its usage and the data it collects are not malicious or done to track you. "Data collection" is arguably a clearer name than telemetry to the average user and is clearly labelled, and can be disabled in a single checkbox in settings. It is transparent.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#269

Post by snvzz »

M95D wrote: post #109
HeckFeck wrote: post #25

I fully respect these reasons, they are logical and well said. But hopefully interest in SerenityOS doesn't taper off due to this. Kling was great at garnering interest with his YouTube videos where he'd go deep into bug fixing and feature development. Certainly, the browser has the most potential and even immediate necessity for the sake of the open Web, but I would still like to daily drive SerenityOS some day. Its…

Linux (kernel I mean) is good enough. There were some scheduling problems with audio, but it's mostly resolved. The problem is GNU style. We need another GUI and that doesn't mean just replacing X with/or Wayland protocol. It means replacing GTK and QT too.

>There were some scheduling problems with audio, but it's mostly resolved.

It'll be, once the realtime patchset is completely merged.

Meanwhile, some distributions (including Arch) offer a pre-patched kernel.

Re: I'm forking Ladybird and stepping down as SerenityOS BDFL

#270

Post by lukan »

skeaker wrote: post #268
lukan wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Transparent telemetry is not spying. " It is not transparent, if the information is hidden in the settings under a unclear name.

Its usage and the data it collects are not malicious or done to track you. "Data collection" is arguably a clearer name than telemetry to the average user and is clearly labelled, and can be disabled in a single checkbox in settings. It is transparent.

"Its usage and the data it collects are not malicious or done to track you."

There is tracking also for ad purposes activated by default in firefox. A recent developement. Before the tracking was ocasionally and hidden under "studies". Firefox in its default settings spies on its users and sells this data to advertisers - that is the situation.

On the frontpage FF is advertised as privacy friendly and there is 0 indication that FF itself will also track you.

If that is transparent to you, than we can just agree to disagree.

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