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AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

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Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#261

Post by craftkiller »

krasin wrote: post #9
aurareturn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because x86 chips are no longer leading in the client. ARM chips are. Specifically, Apple chips. Though Qualcomm has huge potential leapfrog AMD/Intel chips in a few generations too.

Until ARM has a proper UEFI support, it's not a practical desktop/server with a few notable exceptions (Mac, Raspberry Pi) and only because there's so much support from the respective vendors. I know that there's some work happening about UEFI+ARM ( https://developer.arm.com/Architectures/Unified%20Extensible... ), but its support is very rare. The only example I can recall is Ampere Altra: https://www.jeffgeerling.c…

ARM needs more than just proper UEFI support: Microsoft needs to lift the secureboot restrictions on ARM.

x86: Microsoft requires that end-users are allowed to disable secure boot and control which keys are used.

arm: Microsoft requires that end-users are not allowed to disable secure boot

This isn't a hardware issue, but simply a policy issue that Microsoft could solve with a stroke of a pen, but since Microsoft is such a behemoth in the laptop space, their policies control the non-apple market.

source: https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/23817.html

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#262

Post by celrod »

BeeOnRope wrote: post #180
adrian_b wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comparison done by the AMD announcement and by everyone else compares the Zen 5 cores, which will be used both in their laptop/desktop products and in their Turin server CPUs, with the Intel Emerald Rapids and the future Granite Rapids server CPUs. As you say, Intel has abandoned the use of the full AVX-512 instruction set in their laptop/desktop products and in some of their server products. At the end of 2025,…

> of the high-performance programs that is possible in 512-bit AVX-512 due to the equality between register size and cache line size, so the consumer Intel CPUs will remain a worse target for the implementation of high-performance algorithms. Can you elaborate here? I love full-width AVX-512 as much as the next SIMD nerd, but I rarely considered the alignment of the cache line and vector width one of the particularly…

I read that comment as "the wider, the sweeter" (which I agree with), but that we're now (as you say) at the end of the road, and thus the sweetest point.

But an increase in cacheline size would be nice if it can get us larger vectors, or otherwise significantly improve memory bandwidth.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#263

Post by spixy »

MenhirMike wrote: post #145
gautamcgoel wrote: post #3

Surprisingly not that much to be excited about IMO. AMD isn't using TSMC's latest node and the CPUs only officially support DDR5 speeds up to 5600MHz (yes, I know that you can use faster RAM). The CPUs are also using the previous-gen graphics architecture, RDNA2.

Given that there are only 2 CUs in the GPU (and fairly low clock speeds), does the architecture matter much? Benchmarks were kinda terrible, and it looks to me that the intent of the built-in GPU is for hardware video encoding or to run it in a home server system, or emergency BIOS and the like. Compared to the desktop CPUs, even the lowest end mobile 8440U has 4 CUs, going up to 12 CUs on the higher end. Or go with…

Better efficiency with three external 4K 120Hz monitors?

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#264

Post by MenhirMike »

jeffbee wrote: post #218
MenhirMike wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-Pro Threadripper 7960X/7970X/7980X are Quad Channel. (The Threadripper Pro's are Octa-Channel) But yeah, Desktop Ryzen's are all Dual Channel.

True, but the Threadripper requires the TRX50 platform, so I still don't understand what is operative about the statement that the X870E chipset supports quad channel memory.

Good point. Makes me wonder if they'd consider a Threadripper version that uses that chipset, since the Non-Pro Threadripper have been in a weird spot ever since Ryzen went up to 16 cores. An AM5 Threadripper might not make sense because one of the appeals were the much bigger amount of PCIe lanes, but I wonder if they would pair the X870E with a new socket for Zen 5 Non-Pro Threadrippers.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#265

Post by MenhirMike »

philsnow wrote: post #251
cschneid wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm glad they started including built in gpu so there's something there, but beyond booting to a desktop I wouldn't use this graphics for anything else. But if you're just running a screen and compiling rust, that's all you need. Or in my case, running a home server / NAS.

When building a non-APU ryzen machine for homelab use, I ended up buying the very cheapest graphics card I could find that was compatible, a "GeForce GT 710" that was not a beefy card when it was released in 2014. It's.. fine. After getting the system working I passed it through to a win10 VM and I can play non-FPS windows-only steam games over RDP. So yeah next time I build a machine I'll appreciate having this buil…

Yeah, I have several GT 710's which also came in a PCIe x1 variant so I could keep the x16 slot free for something better. Glad that's no longer needed - the built-in GPU is a legit good thing.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#266

Post by MenhirMike »

spixy wrote: post #263
MenhirMike wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that there are only 2 CUs in the GPU (and fairly low clock speeds), does the architecture matter much? Benchmarks were kinda terrible, and it looks to me that the intent of the built-in GPU is for hardware video encoding or to run it in a home server system, or emergency BIOS and the like. Compared to the desktop CPUs, even the lowest end mobile 8440U has 4 CUs, going up to 12 CUs on the higher end. Or go with…

Better efficiency with three external 4K 120Hz monitors?

Oh, there's plenty of good uses for it, but I was specifically wondering why the previous poster cared for it being RDNA 2 instead of RDNA 3 since I don't think it makes a difference outside of gaming, and it's a pretty bad gaming GPU because of the low core count.

So I was curious if there was anything else that RDNA 3/3.5 would offer over RDNA 2 in such a low end configuration.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#267

Post by fourfour3 »

eviks wrote: post #247
fourfour3 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes - I want to maintain quality, even at the expense of flexibility. I would rather there were 1, 2 or 3 high quality paths through a RPG style game or quest than hundreds, thousands, or infinite ones that are 'meh'. (edited to expand)

You can still have 3 high quality ones, it's just that maintaining quality at all the side chars is too expensive, so maybe the generated experience can reach the already "meh" level for those, thus freeing resources to be invested in the bigger paths?

That’s definitely a more interesting proposition to me (and a bit different to the parent comments).

It might well result in less repetitive background chatter & stock comments from side characters without taking focus away from the primary content. Especially if those background characters could react a bit better to progression in the plot.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#268

Post by adgjlsfhk1 »

dzaima wrote: post #246
adrian_b wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if Lisa Su said this at the Zen 4 launch, it is not likely that 512-bit operations are split into a pair of 256-bit operantions that are executed sequentially in the same 256-bit execution unit. Both Zen 3 and Zen 4 have four 256-bit execution units. Two 512-bit instructions can be initiated per clock cycle. It is likely that the four corresponding 256-bit micro-operations are executed simultaneously in all the…

Yeah, it's certainly possible that it's not double-pumping. Should be roughly possible to test via comparing latency upon inserting a vandpd between two vpermd's (though then there are questions about bypass networks; and of course if we can't measure which method is used it doesn't matter for us anyway); don't have a Zen 4 to test on though. But of note is that, at least in uops.info's data[0], there's one perf coun…

it seems plausible that they could be using power of 2 random choices to keep the counts even.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#269

Post by jeffbee »

MenhirMike wrote: post #264
jeffbee wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but the Threadripper requires the TRX50 platform, so I still don't understand what is operative about the statement that the X870E chipset supports quad channel memory.

Good point. Makes me wonder if they'd consider a Threadripper version that uses that chipset, since the Non-Pro Threadripper have been in a weird spot ever since Ryzen went up to 16 cores. An AM5 Threadripper might not make sense because one of the appeals were the much bigger amount of PCIe lanes, but I wonder if they would pair the X870E with a new socket for Zen 5 Non-Pro Threadrippers.

A Threadripper with 24-32 cores but only 2 channels of memory, that worked in the AM5 socket, would fill a nice hole in the AMD story. I don't know if AM5 has enough power pins to do the job, though. If you want more than 16 cores right now you have to spend $2k on the CPU and motherboard, triple what it costs to get a 16-core Ryzen.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#270

Post by chainingsolid »

nubinetwork wrote: post #69
SirGiggles wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t speak for all motherboards but I’m comfortably running 128GiB of DDR4 on a 5950x and x570s platform.

Good to know, maybe I should look again... thanks

I'm running the same as above. However do check both the memory and motherboard manufacture's tested with lists (QVL qualified vendor list) before purchasing! Each product should have its own compatablity listing.
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