I work for Microsoft, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I could not be more excited for these AI productivity features built into the OS. “Recall” is almost exactly what I’ve been dreaming of since the AI boom. I didn’t catch it in the release, but something that can “record” my work life and do things like auto-manage my todo list or answer a question I had about how I did something a year ago is the killer AI product I’ve been waiting for. Not sure I’d want this as a personal device, but would be amazing for work.
Introducing Copilot+ PCs
261–270 of 614 posts
Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs
#262I believe this is only the beginning of the modern OS with a user-interface that is based around AI. Imagine the platform lock-in from a lifetimes worth of meta-data around interactions with an AI agent, which obviously will not be transferable between vendors.
The modern OS that nobody asked for. This could backfire pretty badly if it doesn't succeed. We're still in a hype bubble. When the bubble bursts some thing will stay but many will be washed away
Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs
#263I believe this is only the beginning of the modern OS with a user-interface that is based around AI. Imagine the platform lock-in from a lifetimes worth of meta-data around interactions with an AI agent, which obviously will not be transferable between vendors.
No chance id want to use these features for personal use for pretty much your exact reason. But for work - man I can’t wait.
Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
>I have yet to see any real talk about ARM on custom built machines and I doubt gamers are going to give that up anytime soon. The vast majority of gamers game on smartphones and tablets with ARM processors. Some of the biggest gaming hits recently have also been cross-architecture and cross-platform, namely Genshin Impact and Honkai: Star Rail . Native ARM and x86 releases, runs on Windows, Android, and iOS. There a…
> The vast majority of gamers game on smartphones and tablets with ARM processors. Those are clearly not the gamers I am talking about. The gamers I am referring too are not switching to playing on mobile phones. If they are switching to handheld devices they are going with x86 devices like the Steam Deck. There is a massive market out there of games that do not support those platforms. That are only just now scratch…
Porting a game from x86 Windows to ARM Windows may take some effort, but for most games, nowhere near as much as porting to a different operating system. There just isn’t that much assembly code or even SIMD intrinsic use in your average game. And thanks to Microsoft’s Arm64EC ABI, the conversion from x86 to ARM can be done piecemeal. If, say, the game depends on some proprietary third-party library that isn’t willing to offer an ARM version, that library can be run in emulation while the rest of the game is compiled natively for ARM.
The AAA game world is very conservative, so I can’t guarantee that PC game developers will port their codebases to ARM. It really depends on the size of the audience and how well the x86 emulator works as a substitute. Even if ARM takes over on Windows laptops, I’m not sure laptops are enough, when laptop users are already accustomed to not being able to run AAA games well.
But if the audience gets large enough, it’s hard to believe that developers won’t try recompiling. It’s just not the same level of effort as a port to Mac or Linux.
Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the idea is to all apps and developers gradually transition and develop with ARM support - after all even the mobile devices will be running on ARM sooner or later so future apps, games will be developed with ARM in mind anyway. x86 apps will be supported - with some paid support for example. But it all depends on the market share of ARM at one point. But you can run DOS apps still so with emulation layer - a…
> But it all depends on the market share of ARM at one point. Right thats kinda my point, unless I have missed it I have yet to see any real talk about ARM on custom built machines and I doubt gamers are going to give that up anytime soon. Apple was able to force the transition to happen. I highly doubt Microsoft is going to risk actually dropping x86 from Windows on any reasonable timescale and there has to be somet…
Gaming is barely aa blip in the overall market these days, and they're pretty much the only people who want X86 at this point.
Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs
#266If the following does not happen in 2 years I will eat my hat: They will have performance problems. They will have compatibility problems. They will have poor repairability and zero repair network and support. The software will be abandoned and completely useless within 18 months. They will fail very early but just outside a standard 1 year warranty. This will be a lot of e-waste. Regulatory or national bodies will s…
If in 18 months anyone feels that their ARM laptop isn't cutting it, i'll gladly pay $0.15/$1.00 for them. I know lots of people who could definitely benefit from a laptop that cannot afford them, and IME ARM runs linux just fine.
I suspect they will be locked down like the RT devices were...
Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs
#267I'd like to know what their battery life estimates are with Outlook and Teams running. My guess is ~2 hours.
Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs
#268The AI is the least interesting part of this announcement. Microsoft is giving ARM another try with a special branding that's supposed to guarantee some level of performance and quality. That's possibly huge news.
Exactly. They're now aggressively competing with Apple with supposedly better performance and better battery life. That's huge. Apple was years ahead with the introduction of the M1 but it appears competition has finally caught up. All of this has to be proven in real life though, but so far all the newly announced ARM devices [0] look like impressive MacBook competitors on their own.
[0] So far it seems this are the devices that have been announced.
Microsoft: Surface Laptop 7, Surface Pro 11
Dell: XPS 13, Inspiron 14 and 14 Plus, Latitude 5455, Latitude 7455
HP: OmniBook X and Elitebook X
Lenovo: Yoga Slim 7 and ThinkPad 14s Gen 6.
Samsung: Galaxy Book4 Edge
Acer: Swift 14
Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
Microsoft has been consistently trying to give ARM a try since the surface RT. Consumers are not going to bite. marginal power saving is not meaningful.
No one cares for power saving. Turn it into higher performance at same power usage and people will bite. Of course it has to actually be a real upgrade like the Apple Silicon chips were.
Said like someone who's never actually owned an efficient machine, frankly. Not having a jet turbine under your desk is kinda life changing, actually.
Re: Introducing Copilot+ PCs
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Their "copilot" brand is so weird and... muddled. Microsoft can't brand anything cleanly and unambiguously. "MSN Messenger" / "Windows Messenger" / "Windows Live Messenger" / "Microsoft Lync" "Internet Explorer" / "Windows Explorer" / "MSN Explorer" Windows 95 email client "Exchange" / email server platform "Exchange" "Outlook" / "Outlook Web Access" / "Outlook Web App" / "Outlook.com" / "new Outlook for Windows" "…
To add to this, I have always found the Xbox naming conventions to be confusing, personally. "Xbox One" is the third one, not the original "Xbox" and the two newest models are named almost identically; "Xbox Series X" vs "Xbox Series S".
To make it even more confusing, the Xbox One had the mid-generation updates called Xbox One S (slimmer, a few additional features) and the Xbox One X (more powerful.)
So from oldest to newest it's
- Xbox
- Xbox 360
- Xbox One
- Xbox One S
- Xbox One X
So for a period of time in stores you might see a One S, a One X, a Series S, and a Series X. If you aren't a gamer, it's a complete mystery which is the newest and most powerful. I'm sure some kids got the wrong console for Christmas, as the One X was at times more expensive than a Series S, despite being an older console that would later not support many games that the Series S supports. This would be even more likely to happen if the Series X was out of stock (so the most expensive Xbox console at the store might be a discontinued model that won't support all the new games.)
In contrast, it's pretty obvious that a PlayStation 5 is going to be better than a PlayStation 4. Yes, a quick search will show which is the newest and most powerful Xbox, but if people have to do research to find out which is your best console and they don't have to do that for your competitor, then you have a confusing naming scheme.