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As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

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Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#261

Post by PontifexMinimus »

somethoughts wrote: post #137
minusLik wrote: post #67

What the article does not seem to mention is that an usual electric wheelchair costs about $65,000 (and is intended to be replaced every six years or so). This and the non-availability of replacement parts is why some wheelchair users started a project to open-source a wheelchair from standard parts: https://themif.org/ Louis Rossmann interviewed the founder of the project here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaAj59…

To be honest - it actually seems like a risky Private Equity play as I bet the $65000 sticker price is due to the fact that Medicare is footing the bill. Medicare is likely what is requiring a regulation grade wheel chair, not the users themselves. I bet a huge segment of the user base could easily self purchase a mobility scooter and achieve the same quality of life if the price point was such that they could out of…

You can buy mobility scooters for under £2000. e.g. https://www.mobilitypower.co.uk/product/fastest/

$65k is an obvious rip-off.

> Medicare is likely what is requiring a regulation grade wheel chair, not the users themselves.

It's a shame Medicare can't just give the users cash and allow them to choose their own wheelchair; both Medicare and the users would win.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#262

Post by sgregnt »

akira2501 wrote: post #161
ptero wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect in the US the lack of competition is due to regulation and liability, not VCs.

There have been a lot of acquisitions and rollups in this space. We have regulations against this, but they are not enforced, and the VCs have the money to push through this layer anyways. It's both. The US lacks serious competition in _most_ of it's industries right now.

Only in the industries, where the government is involved.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#263

Post by kazinator »

Spivak wrote: post #244
cogman10 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's the interesting thing. You likely can import and use these wheelchairs, but they can't be sold as medical devices and, subsequently, won't be covered by your insurance. The dumb thing is these super cheap wheelchairs would likely cost the end users more money than the expensive ones as they will buy them out of pocket vs having their insurance/medicare cover most/all of the cost. The reason these compani…

> they can't be sold as medical devices and, subsequently, won't be covered by your insurance. This is something I've never really understood. Wouldn't the insurance company be ever grateful to you if you accepted a non-medical wheelchair because it's 1/10th the cost. Hell, have 5! Is there any reason insurance can't pay for them?

Not if it's owned by the same private equity firm as the wheelchair guys; then it's just another face of the same racket.

Also, medical insurance is supposed to cover bona fide medical treatments and supplies. So this likely bumps up against regulation again. If something goes wrong with the out-of-regulation device that insurance paid of as if it were a medical wheelchair (e.g. safety incident leading to injury), they could be liable.

It's the same as why dental insurance won't pay for your next door neighbor handyman to pull out your tooth with a pair of pliers.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#264

Post by atrus »

krapp wrote: post #142
Der_Einzige wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When replicators are invented, most political problems will disappear. Star Trek got it right.

Star Trek style replicators can't be invented. The laws of physics won't allow it. It will always cost more energy and be vastly less efficient to assemble a cup of coffee atom by atom than it would to just grow the beans, have them picked, packaged and shipped, and make it yourself, and unlike in Star Trek, energy in the real world isn't free. You might say we could come close with advanced 3D printing and some kind…

growing the beans, having them picked, packaged and shipped and making them yourself is assembling building coffee atom by atom. What do you think those plants are doing growing those beans? What do you think pouring that hot water onto the grounds is doing?

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#265

Post by TechDebtDevin »

PontifexMinimus wrote: post #261
somethoughts wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest - it actually seems like a risky Private Equity play as I bet the $65000 sticker price is due to the fact that Medicare is footing the bill. Medicare is likely what is requiring a regulation grade wheel chair, not the users themselves. I bet a huge segment of the user base could easily self purchase a mobility scooter and achieve the same quality of life if the price point was such that they could out of…

You can buy mobility scooters for under £2000. e.g. https://www.mobilitypower.co.uk/product/fastest/ $65k is an obvious rip-off. > Medicare is likely what is requiring a regulation grade wheel chair, not the users themselves. It's a shame Medicare can't just give the users cash and allow them to choose their own wheelchair; both Medicare and the users would win.

[flagged]

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#266

Post by akira2501 »

sgregnt wrote: post #262
akira2501 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been a lot of acquisitions and rollups in this space. We have regulations against this, but they are not enforced, and the VCs have the money to push through this layer anyways. It's both. The US lacks serious competition in _most_ of it's industries right now.

Only in the industries, where the government is involved.

There have been recent monopolization plays on cheer leading, on diving schools, and grocery stores. This is not a polite machine with boundaries.

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#267

Post by [deleted] »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #133
readyman wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I didn't realize that FDA Class I regulations were this easy to comply with. They definitely won't be once this open source effort shows any sign of success. You can't solve political problems with technical solutions. At best, you may be able to displace them, but even that is rare.

When replicators are invented, most political problems will disappear. Star Trek got it right.

[deleted]

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#268

Post by croes »

jordanb wrote: post #247

Our whole economy is feeling increasingly Soviet. Somehow our business leaders have decided that the best business is one that does not serve its customers, and that providing a good or service efficiently and effectively is poor management because it is "leaking value" to counterparties. I guess the next phase is going to be you need to know people if you want your medical device delivered, your car repaired, or for…

Welcome to capitalism

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#269

Post by [deleted] »

minusLik wrote: post #67

What the article does not seem to mention is that an usual electric wheelchair costs about $65,000 (and is intended to be replaced every six years or so). This and the non-availability of replacement parts is why some wheelchair users started a project to open-source a wheelchair from standard parts: https://themif.org/ Louis Rossmann interviewed the founder of the project here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaAj59…

[deleted]

Re: As private equity dominates wheelchair market, users wait months for repairs

#270

Post by hedora »

timschmidt wrote: post #225
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is why some wheelchair users started a project to open-source a wheelchair from standard parts: https://themif.org/ Can you point to any project site that has released anything along this line? Blueprints, bills of material, code? There's nothing on the site you linked having any such resources. The closest thing is a block diagram including an RS-485 motor controller, which doesn't really seem like an alternative…

We have collected all the documentation from the WHIM Wheelchair development effort at https://wiki.replimat.org/wiki/Wheelchairs

Since the US ones are disposable anyway, here are come comparables for well under $3K (often under $1K)

https://www.aliexpress.us/w/wholesale-Electric-wheelchair.ht...

No idea if it makes more sense to buy those, design from scratch, use those for inspiration, or buy one, tear it down, and rip off the bill of materials.

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