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End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

theguardian.com

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Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#261

Post by fancyfredbot »

zaphirplane wrote: post #173
fancyfredbot wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing people's distastefor gulf states can be explained largely by their ranking in the global slavery index [1] (three gulf states in the top ten) the global freedom index [2] (Saudi Arabia in bottom ten) and the global corruption index (gulf states are not as good at corruption as slavery or repression but they still give it a good shot). This seems more likely to me as an explanation than hating on people w…

Most of earth’s 8 billion people are unaware of (1) and shouldnt paint a whole region, I see only 2-3 gulf countries in the top 10 of (2) which painting the whole region for is convoluted reasoning. Not vested enough to decode 3 to see how it relates to hating a region. In summary, there maybe reasons for an informed person to have an issue with a specific government, there is no reasonable reason to hate on countrie…

I'd say that there are specific reasons to have an issue with each and every government in the region.

I'll call the gulf states Bahrain, Kuwait, Iraq, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and the United Arab Emirates. Which of these would you say has a good record on human rights, personal liberty, and equality?

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#262

Post by henearkr »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #50
namaria wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one "signs off" on an absolute monarch's design.

> No one "signs off" on an absolute monarch's design Nitpick, but MBS isn't the sovereign. His father is. Given MBS isn't acting as regent, he's actually--in the most technical way--a tyrant: "the tyrant was Very Obviously but not formally in charge, because he ruled extra-constitutonally, rather than abolishing the constitution. This is what seperates tyranny, a form of extra-constitutional one man rule, from monarc…

Nope, this isn't the difference between tyranny and monarchy.

Monarchy is telling you "who" has the power, and tyranny is telling you "how" the power is used.

Not even mentioning the existence of constitutional monarchy. It's the political system of many countries, including Norway and Sweden.

So, in order to really convey useful information, one would have to use different words, such as "democracy" (which can be "liberal", or the extreme opposite "illiberal"), "dictatorship", etc.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#263

Post by ponector »

ethanbond wrote: post #254
ponector wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like nowadays no one in US does really care about other countries, even US allies. 6 months ago they stopped sending limited amount of weapons to Ukraine. Current foreign policy of USA clearly sends a message that other countries can do anything they want to both their citizens and their neighbors.

To be clear that’s Republicans. Democrats overwhelmingly support military aid to Ukraine. Republicans are split (at best) on the issue. Israel-Gaza is a more complicated breakdown for sure, but it’s also a much more complicated conflict.

Aren't democrats holding the office and keep not sending efficient weapons? Only bare minimum which cannot significantly affect battlefield.

Morocco received few hundred US tanks recently. Do they fight for survival?

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#264

Post by geocar »

DrBazza wrote: post #90
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #43

The only thing the Gulf states have going for them is oil money and a good hub location on the Europe–Southeast Asia airline routes. Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Riyadh, Bahrain, Qatar, they all remind me of that quote from King of the Hill—they are monuments to man's arrogance. Desert cities hitting 50+ °C air temperature at midday which means air conditioning everywhere; vapid luxury in the form of expensive garish cars, shop…

You can build all the vanity projects you like when you're rich with petro-dollars, and pay Asian workers less than $10 per day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burj_Khalifa#Labour

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_Stat...

In 2021, inmates in federal prisons earned between $0.23 to $1.15 per hour.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#265

Post by Moldoteck »

theGeatZhopa wrote: post #23

That comes unexpected. I really would like to see how this works out. It's a possible way of living in the future. If the earth becomes more fiendly, such cities would offer autonomous compounds for the people. Now i would like to know if somebody is building the ARCs ...

the project was/is as feasible and advanced in renderings compared to classic cities as hyperloop was compared to classic high speed rail. It's not a possible way of living in the future, because there are examples of line cities that did exist and some exist today and these cities do have drawbacks that disk/square cities do not have while advantages are minimal and this line project approved by the dictator even in project phase. It's much more expensive, much more inelastic to the economic and people demand, much less economically profitable (per sq km compared to classic cities that expand in all directions) and much worse for commute options too (if you want to use a bike instead of pub transport, you'll have to travel more compared to a med/high density mixed use city developed in all directions with proper and much cheaper infrastructure set in place. This project is nothing more than a dictator's fantasy and should be treated as such. If you want to see a line city-there are several that exist today across the world and you can compare by yourself what's good/bad in these compared to a 'traditional' developed city

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#266

Post by influx »

ponector wrote: post #250
smashah wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Looks like nowadays no one in US does really care about other countries, even US allies. 6 months ago they stopped sending limited amount of weapons to Ukraine. Current foreign policy of USA clearly sends a message that other countries can do anything they want to both their citizens and their neighbors.

I wasn’t aware that outside a great movie that the USA was the world police.

Russia is evil for invading Ukraine, which is a non EU, non NATO nation.

Europeans should be the one fighting for freedom in Europe not the Americans.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#267

Post by rany_ »

sztanko wrote: post #82

Economics explained YouTube channel has a good coverage on the rationale behind the crazy projects like this. In short, while the project itself might not make much sense, the infrastructure created to build it will stay and it makes it more accommodating to build other, more rational projects. https://youtu.be/pnrAxfzHElo?si=ceaS6MIs7qrP9ohL

Maybe I'm cynical but I really doubt that the Crown Prince is smart enough to have thought about it like this and even then, they could achieve the same (supposed) end result while also pursuing a more achievable mega project and get more out of that $1.5T.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#268

Post by JoeAltmaier »

flir wrote: post #256
axlee wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's not gloss over the fact that we in the west do the same. Only we hide the slaves in sweatshops so our sensibilities aren't triggered. Totally: Norway and Saudi Arabia are exactly the same in terms of humanism, it's just a matter of optics, right?

No UK supermarket will guarantee their supply chain for prawns (shrimp) is slavery-free. This in no way mitigates anybody else's issues, but that's an issue that I, personally, wish we could solve (and when we're done with that, maybe we can tackle the calorie laundering that goes on in that industry). I think the problem is that in a globalised economy, a local issue quickly becomes an everybody issue. Am I less res…

Yes. Yes you are.

Of course, we are responsible most directly for our own interactions with other people. Less so with other people's bad behavior.

You go down the other road, there's an indirect connection to every person on earth. Refuse to deal with everybody and anybody because of that, you're paralyzed.

I get it, that was a rhetorical question. Mine is not a rhetorical answer. It's hard enough, dealing decently with the people I come into contact with. Struggling to make every problem into my problem, there's very little gain in that.

Before anybody says I'm callous and unfeeling, well, you'd have to know what I do in my own community. But few bother to weight that, at all, when they're playing the blamethrowing game.

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#269

Post by ineverything »

Ahmd72 wrote: post #218
Ahmd72 wrote: post #214

The sheer arrogance of Westerners is one of the reasons I'm so biased against them and letting them enter any of the Muslim countries, like come on are we supposed to be taking lessons from people who gave us the Holocaust, the World wars, the Iraq war, the forceful displacement of Palestinians so they can create their own country. Are you people really that blind that you think whatever you think or values you have…

Just to add context, this is for the replies that I have seen on this thread for those people who are just assuming the worst of our people

[flagged]

Re: End of the Line? Saudi Arabia to scale back plans for desert megacity

#270

Post by dagw »

ponector wrote: post #263
ethanbond wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear that’s Republicans. Democrats overwhelmingly support military aid to Ukraine. Republicans are split (at best) on the issue. Israel-Gaza is a more complicated breakdown for sure, but it’s also a much more complicated conflict.

Aren't democrats holding the office and keep not sending efficient weapons? Only bare minimum which cannot significantly affect battlefield. Morocco received few hundred US tanks recently. Do they fight for survival?

Democrats hold the presidency, but not the congress. If congress decides do thwart the president on an issue, then there is very little the president can do. Basically the president has the power to veto something that congress wants to do, but has virtually no power to compel congress to do something it doesn't want to do.
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