Being mad about this is like being mad the thief who stole your belongings then pawned them. The crime was spying on you in the first place. Automakers should not have any data, to share or sell or give to law enforcement with a subpoena.
Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies
261–270 of 333 posts
Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies
#262> "More specifically, automakers are selling access to the data to Lexis Nexis, which is then crafting “risk scores” insurance companies then use to adjust rates. Usually upward" In an ideal world, such data-harvesting might lead to cheaper prices / a more efficient insurance market - which would make the privacy loss worth considering from a trade-off standpoint, at least in theory. Unfortunately it's instead likely…
> In an ideal world, such data-harvesting might lead to cheaper prices / a more efficient insurance market - which would make the privacy loss worth considering from a trade-off standpoint, at least in theory. In an ideal world (read: perfect information knowledge), this would lead to insurance being a bad deal for every consumer of it. In the theoretical position where insurance companies can accurately price each i…
Insurance companies don't have to make money from underwriting or insurance.
Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
Toyota. I still had the sticker- I peeled it off and put it in the manual. The exact text is: VEHICLE DATA TRANSMISSION IS ON! Your vehicle wirelessly transmits location, driving and vehicle health data to deliver your services and for internal research and data analysis. See www.toyota[.]com/privacyvts. To disable, press vehicle's SOS button.
Similar experience but to be fair at least toyota has a big sticker. Other cars are doing it too and just not telling you. Either way, my next car is going to be a 90s land rover.
I found this Facebook group called "Low Miles No Miles"
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2066782386864241/
I was very surprised how many people there are who buy cars from the factory and immediately stored them, in the 1990's. In some cases the owners did not even remove any of the factory stickers or plastic.
This group must be showing just the tip of the iceberg.
Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies
#264I think there are a few reasons to be mad about this, but some are better than others: 1) People don't understand they're being monitored. I think this is a good reason to be mad. People should have some understanding of the agreements they make. It's part of being a functional adult in the world. It's also annoying that the companies keep spinning this as a tool to improve your driving, when it's clearly an attempt…
I've avoided accidents by hard breaking twice in the last two years, once from deer bounding into the road, and once from a deaf old cat walking into the street. I haven't been cited for anything in decades, and have never been in an at-fault accident. I drive the speed limit and have a dashcam. With the deer, I was actually 10 MPH under the limit. So should my rates go up for these incidents where I successfully avo…
Did your rates go up? Or is this a straw man argument?
Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies
#265When I got my last car, it had a sticker instructing me to press the SOS button to opt out of data collection. The gentleman that answered acted confused when I made the request, taking the stance that he wasn't aware of data collection from the car and maybe I should contact the manufacturer. It was only after I read him the sticker text verbatim that he went into a scripted response and confirmed the opt out. Shady…
This kinda confirms, unfortunately and sadly, that ChatGPT answers are probably just as good as human answers. And the data collection for your phone call went to training, not into a database where you officially opted out.
> This kinda confirms, unfortunately and sadly, that ChatGPT answers are probably just as good as human answers.
These people are paid to follow scripts and strict protocols. At best, this may suggest that ChatGPT answers are as good as a call center representative's answers.
Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies
#266Earlier quoted context omitted.
> all of your counterexamples involve the government I’m trying to avoid the miasma of conflicting rights. Somewhere in this thread I referenced a car spilling diesel on private land. This impact the value of neighbouring plots. On entirely private merits, the owner’s ability to operate their property, on their property, willy nilly, is curtailed. Simpler, if more absurd example: someone’s pet or kid wanders on your…
In other words, you think it's ok to insist on a contract with a loan for 50% interest. I, and many others, disagree and think that's a heinous abuse despite the argument that both parties willingly entered into the agreement.
The word "willingly" does a TON of heavy lifting here given the circumstances of both parties.
Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
The confusion was likely a scripted response too. I had a friend who worked with call centers, taking orders over the phone. they had a script for everything, and after they quickly took your order, they started with a scripted upsell. If the person balked, they had responses for everything so they could continue. The only way out of the script was if the customer said "I will cancel my order". The call center person…
Xfinity similarly does this if they overcharge you on a contract. They try to upsell on a new (less value) contract for an hour before finally just changing tone and saying "you're right we messed up" and refunding you.
After all, you called them, which shows you're a ripe target. Every sales person knows that. Oh, you thought they were a support person? Maybe sales support.
Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies
#268My insurance went up 10 percent out of the blue. Wonder if Tesla shares?
10% is below average, you should feel lucky. Car insurance premiums have been rising dramatically, especially for EVs.
Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It looks like the shared data at least tries to be anonymous One of the main points of the article is that insurance companies are using the data to raise drivers' rates. How can they do that if the data is anonymous?
The car company can share the details based on the chassis VIN number rather than driver details. Then the insurance company grabs the vehicle registration number when you ask for a quote and looks up the VIN on their side based on a security database to prevent resale of stolen cars or similar. Anonymous data becomes identifiable data...
> The car company can share the details based on the chassis VIN number rather than driver details.
That's hardly anonymized data! It's more obscured.
Re: Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies
#270> An employee familiar with G.M.’s Smart Driver said the company’s annual revenue from the program is in the low millions of dollars. It doesn't seem in the car company's interests to take on the reputational risk for this kind of financial reward.
What sort of "reputational risk" do you think they are taking on? Data sharing with third parties is ubiquitous in almost all industries. Every single company that deals with financial products reports account information to third parties (Experian, Equifax, TransUnion, Early Warning Services, ChexSystems). If you return an item at a retail store it gets reported to fraud alert databases. Most medium to large employe…
> What sort of "reputational risk" do you think they are taking on?
> a few "privacy nerds" complain about it on the Internet is not risking their reputation.
The news about GM's OnStar tattling (their words) on drivers is front page on several big news sites like CNN. This is not just some privacy nerds, this is a whole bunch of mainstream media outlets calling out GM by name.
I'm confident the PR team at GM is working overtime right now to try and find a mitigating spin.