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Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

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Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#261

Post by mise_en_place »

mden wrote: post #126
mise_en_place wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the beauty of the free market, you have the freedom of choice. You can vote with your wallet or your feet. You can leave if your personal ethics and morality no longer align with the organization you're working for. A business doesn't owe you a paycheck simply because you think you're on the moral high ground.

I'm not saying you're entitled to a paycheck - a company has the right to fire you for your differences in politics. But if you frame it as a relationship, communication can help both sides as long as it's done with some mutual understanding. There are times companies listen to their employees and change their stance. And if they don't then you still have the ability to leave. That said it also matters how difference…

It’s perhaps a cultural difference. I grew up in an era (90s, 00s) where people who were overly political were mocked and ridiculed. Certainly you’d never run into it in the workplace. That’s not to say you should never voice your political beliefs, but there is a time and a place for it.

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#262

Post by drewbug01 »

dekhn wrote: post #179
PheonixPharts wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused by your logic here, the fact that all other big tech companies would do something is hardly grounds for considering an action "right" in any moral framework I know of. "Unsurprisingly so" I can get behind. But "rightfully" is a stretch I wouldn't agree with.

Saying "rightfully so" does not imply the rightness derives from morality.

The most common, plain meanings of the phrase “rightfully so” do imply a basis in morality.

It’s fair to say that it can mean that the “rightness” is derived from other sources, but pretending that the primary meaning of the phrase doesn’t imply morality is just being intentionally obtuse.

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#263

Post by drewbug01 »

liampulles wrote: post #96

Its striking to me that there seems to be a segment of the population now that think that a company should behave like a democracy. I'd be very interested to see research about how this kind of viewpoint has changed over time, at what kind of companies it is more or less prevalent at, etc. I find this viewpoint astonishing personally, but that might have to do with my upbringing and cultural background.

It doesn’t really surprise me, actually. We spend an enormous amount of our waking hours engaging with our jobs! If one believes in democracy, holds it as a core value - it seems perfectly reasonable that such a person would want the place they spend so much time to reflect those values.

Whether or not that’s “right” or “wrong” is an entirely separate matter, of course.

But it doesn’t surprise me, not in the least.

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#264

Post by 7thaccount »

C6JEsQeQa5fCjE wrote: post #243
7thaccount wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem is that folks look at things in a bizarre black and white manner and see it as either 1.) Israel has every right to defend itself from further terrorist attacks and isn't doing anything wrong, or 2.) Israel has no right to retaliate at all. I think the more moderate view is that Israel suffered a heinous terrorist attack perpetrated by a terrorist group in power. Israel has a right to defend their…

> we've had genocide in Cambodia, Serbia, [...] Just to correct you, the genocide was in Bosnia, not Serbia, as a culmination of years of ethnic cleansing of the muslim (and to a smaller extent the ethnic Croat) population of Bosnia by the Serbian ethnic group during the period of 1992-1995. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_genocide

Thank you! It's been awhile since I went over that.

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#265

Post by edanm »

wwweston wrote: post #81

Israel is an inherently inequitable and therefore likely terminally conflict-ridden ethnostate. Israel is a reasonable reaction to a long and terrible history of ethnic persecution. What's going on in Gaza is an unacceptable humanitarian tragedy that is a reaction to an unacceptable attack. There are players on both "sides" of this conflict that are driving it because they actually want the conflict, people who never…

[flagged]

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#266

Post by adastra22 »

edanm wrote: post #265
wwweston wrote: post #81

Israel is an inherently inequitable and therefore likely terminally conflict-ridden ethnostate. Israel is a reasonable reaction to a long and terrible history of ethnic persecution. What's going on in Gaza is an unacceptable humanitarian tragedy that is a reaction to an unacceptable attack. There are players on both "sides" of this conflict that are driving it because they actually want the conflict, people who never…

[flagged]

It's not an ethnostate either. There's 2 million muslim arab people living in Israel with full citizenship and all the rights that go with it--including the right to vote in democratic elections. It's no more an ethnostate than, say, France or Germany.

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#267

Post by edanm »

adastra22 wrote: post #266
edanm wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's not an ethnostate either. There's 2 million muslim arab people living in Israel with full citizenship and all the rights that go with it--including the right to vote in democratic elections. It's no more an ethnostate than, say, France or Germany.

Agreed.

But, to be fair, there is some validity to the idea that it's an ethnostate, in that there is automatic "right of return" only to ethnic Jews. Not to mention there is some legal discrimination against non-Jews (like the new nation-state law) and also a whole lot of non-legal discrimination.

I don't agree with this reasoning - but the situation is complicated so I understand why some people argue otherwise. Like you, I'd say that Israel is just like France - it defined some group of people to be citizens (or the equivalent of "expat" citizens), which included all Jews in the world, and also included the non-Jews on the land at the time. And from then on, acted like any other state. This is very similar to France/Germany/anyone (and Zionism was started as part of the same worldwide move towards nationalism).

Re: Google fires employee who protested Israel tech event, shuts forum

#268

Post by mrtksn »

lordfrito wrote: post #125

Lately it seems that more and more rank-and-file employees believe that a company has some sort of moral obligation to take their political opinions into consideration. Corporations aren't democracies. Unless you're an executive or high ranking decision maker, you're along for the ride. I don't ask my kids for their opinion about my home budget, what house I should buy, etc. So it is at work. Expecting a company to k…

Companies are bunch of people who come together to do something with their time and resources, you can check the documents that bring the companies into existence.

When Nestle tries to hook babies to a baby formula in order to exploit their parents for profit, that's not Nestle doing it - it's the workers at Nestle doing it. The legal ecosystem might or might not hold these people responsible depending on the jurisdiction but that doesn't change who is actually choosing to do it or not.

It is also nothing wrong with attempting to influence the actions of these people and its also normal to get fired for this. Even if you fail to influence those people, in retrospect you elevate the chances for these people to be deeply ashamed of and insulated from the society because of their choices. You can at least deny them the privilege of going around, giving speeches and get applause at the age when they have all the money they need and crave for the recognition for their achievements, love of people and want to believe that their lives were not waisted. Even if you can't take away their penthouses, you can make them cry in these penthouses.

It is a good practice to shame people because it is one of the motivator for their actions.

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