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Sweden Is a NATO Member

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Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#261

Post by chasd00 »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #127
dylan604 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the view of the US public on NATO can be seen in any US TV series or Hollywood film - it does not exist. I wouldn't say it doesn't exist. To me, it's always more of that "we'll let you guys muck about until it's totally obvious you're not going to fix it, then we'll ride in to save the day" attitude. Not saying that's accurate, but that's how it's portrayed by Hollywood

What Hollywood film that involves the US military does include NATO militaries? Rewatching SG-1, and of course it's US only.

I don't think it was Hollywood per se but The Day After did.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#262

Post by bloopernova »

unnouinceput wrote: post #243
firebat45 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's almost as good as the guy that killed Hitler. Really doing the world a favor.

Isn't, at least officially, Hitler the guy that killed Hitler? Or that was the joke and it flew over my head?

That is indeed the joke. Hopefully you don't get downvoted for asking a question.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#263

Post by ProjectArcturis »

nostrebored wrote: post #192

I get that we've decided 'NATO Good' now -- but are people really so sure that it's sphere of influence is geopolitically stabilizing? I don't see how it could be. If I were Russia, or an ally of Russia, an expansionist NATO would be galvanizing for me and would accelerate a counterbalance alliance. Creating a potentially entrenched conflict in countries that have surface-to-surface access to Moscow would be in my be…

Maybe if Russia weren't an active threat to all its neighbors, its neighbors wouldn't want to join NATO so badly.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#264

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

repelsteeltje wrote: post #224
MaxPengwing wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden joining means they have lost the Baltic Sea as the only entrance is now controlled by two NATO countries. Finland Joining has helped lock down the Baltic sea but most importantly is a staging ground for cutting logistics to the largest military complex on the Kola peninsula. This war is not just about Russias energy politics, it's also very much about their need for more maritime access. THis map shows where R…

Interesting. You seem to know your stuff and have thought this through. So, I was hoping to solicit your opinion on where you think Kaliningrad will be in a couple of years? (Say 5) It probably won't be called "Koningsberg", but would you say it's probable it will become independent? Part of Lithuania, Poland? Or will it remain firmly Russian and (economically) isolated? Curious to hear your thoughts.

Many [though not enough] people in K̶a̶l̶i̶n̶i̶n̶g̶r̶a̶d̶ Królewiec consider themselves more European than russian. The optimistic view is that sooner or later they'll get their way. Perhaps with putler's death they might.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#265

Post by originalvichy »

roschdal wrote: post #249

Yeah, the expansion of NATO to the east is so successful and peaceful, best thing ever.

If the Russian empire didn’t expand west under the guise of communist brotherhood, then proceeded to make every aspect of life miserable to those they controlled (not talking about purely macroeconomics here), Nato would have never been invited east.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#266

Post by adastra22 »

dguest wrote: post #248
klipt wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things are looking up for NATO! Except the part where Trump said he'd pull the US out of NATO if elected.

I'm too lazy to look this up. Can he do that?

Maybe. Countries can leave the treaty. Congress and the Senate are trying to make it impossible for the president to unilaterally do this, but I don't know if that bill has passed yet. It's a bipartisan effort believe it or not, because even the most politic Republicans are not stupid. I expect it should pass before January 2025.

But who knows, maybe he can sabotage the alliance in other ways, or find some other way out.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#267

Post by ilrwbwrkhv »

seydor wrote: post #128

This is actually very significant, this time NATO expands to the west, and who knows where next. I wonder what was the debate in Sweden all this time (beyond the waiting for some dictators to give them the final approval)

It's time for the USA to step out of NATO. Will surely happen when Trump comes to power.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#268

Post by dylan604 »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #181
unmole wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> will pull their weight How much do they weigh in comparison to the 800lb gorilla that is the United States?

The non-US members of NATO combined are larger economically, demographically and geographically than the US is. If they all pulled their weight NATO would have (slightly) more contribution from non-US countries than from the US.

The non-US members all have different views that must reach a consensus before any action which is precisely where the machine grinds to a halt. Which means a consensus is rarely reached. Contrasting that to the US which can bring all of its might with the whims of one leader and possible brow beating of congress to agree.

In this way, NATO/UN is interchangeable from the US point of view.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#270

Post by bluGill »

hnthrowaway0328 wrote: post #141

It would be nice if EU seek independency from US eventually.

For what? EU is plenty powerful enough to do that, but for what end. What would they do different that is significant. Sure there are minor differences in various policies and lots of disagreements, but overall our high level aims are too close and so the EU is better off not having to.

Have you ever heard of the military-industrial complex? If the EU wants to be independent they need to develop their own at great cost. (note that the US is already depending on EU's military industrial complex for various things, so you would also force the US to take those in-house) Which is why despite differences the US and EU are likely to remain allies for a long time - you cannot afford to go alone.

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