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Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

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Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#261

Post by vel0city »

globular-toast wrote: post #59
lp4vn wrote: post #4

Very nice. I live alone and often I'm baffled by the sheer amount of garbage that my urban lifestyle generates. I was not alive in the 80's but I was told that people used to use more environment-friendly packaging like glass bottles. Sometimes I wonder why this massive change to everything-should-be-packed-in-plastic happened.

The glass bottles of Heinz are available right next to the plastic ones. So in the case of ketchup at least I think people choose the plastic ones.

At many grocery stores I go to, there are no glass bottles of ketchup available. The few that do have them, the glass bottles are significantly smaller than the plastic while also being more expensive. They also don't have the reduced sugar or no HFCS choices in glass bottles. None of the generic brands sell in glass bottles around me.

Even then, in the end I'd still end up buying it in plastic. The plastic squeeze bottles are just way more convenient. I'd probably be fine buying it in bulk and fill my own squeeze bottles to reduce plastic consumption, but buying smaller and radically more expensive glass bottles isn't really a winning choice in my book.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#262

Post by specialist »

Maybe ceramics could provide a third choice.

Traditional clay (earthen) "bhar" cups are pretty awesome. Sanitary (kiln fired), no glazes, durable, water proof, single use, non-toxic, etc.

When you're done sipping your chai, just smash your bhar cup on the ground. It simply becomes earth again.

Surely we can come up with some spiffy new modern variations.

All it'd take is investment and policy.

--

For the eeyores:

Startups are now developing and deploying out carbon-free cement and carbon-free steel.

All it took was investment, cheap energy, and policy.

--

Aside: Since the early '90s, Howard Schultz (Starbucks) has promised us an eco-friendly coffee cup. Any day now, right? I'm so tired of waiting.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#263

Post by drewdevault »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #223

> Currently only about 3% of PP products are being recycled in the United States, but it is becoming more widely accepted So now the relatively small amount of mass in the cap is just as recyclable as the bottle itself -- neither are actually going to be recycled. There's nothing to see here but marketing. And a an interesting engineering puzzle solved, sure. "How Big Oil Misled The Public Into Believing Plastic Woul…

The only genuine path to sustainability is reduction. There is no sustainable way to have disposable single-use packaging that you throw away when the bottle empties. Glass bottles with a deposit to incentivize bottle return, following which they are washed and refilled with new product (ideally locally, with fresh ketchup arriving to local distribution centers in bulk), is a much more reasonable approach.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#264

Post by tristan957 »

fedeb95 wrote: post #188

you know what could be sustainable? A bring-your-own bottle policy in stores. Deliver big dispensers to stores, and let people refill. All the rest is a very marginal reduction unlikely to have an effect in the long run. In a complex environment, where we can't make predictions, is better to be cautious.

The term I have heard used is Refillery. I have seen small businesses do this for soaps, shampoos, and conditioners at farmers markets. Check your local area!

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#265

Post by specialist »

lp4vn wrote: post #4

Very nice. I live alone and often I'm baffled by the sheer amount of garbage that my urban lifestyle generates. I was not alive in the 80's but I was told that people used to use more environment-friendly packaging like glass bottles. Sometimes I wonder why this massive change to everything-should-be-packed-in-plastic happened.

I've mostly switched to pressure cooker, bulk foods (25 lb bags of rice, beans, porridge), and the local produce stand (BYOB). Both my food and packaging waste is now minimal.

Most of my plastic waste is from prescriptions. OMG so wasteful. Wax paper bags would be just fine.

YMMV.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#266

Post by Steltek »

ecshafer wrote: post #249
woodruffw wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many (most?) nicer grocery stores in the US already do bulk packaging for coffee, to no discernible detrimental effect. Compared to narrow aisles and decision paralysis from 60 different plastic bottles with the same ingredients but different scents/dyes, I think any inefficiencies in bulk shopping are probably pretty small.

This might be a local thing for you. The only store around me that has bulk coffee is the very bougie food co-op. Even nice stores like whole foods, wegmans, trader joes don't have that.

Wegman's definitely has bulk food sections. The memorable part is the candy but there are other foods. I'm not sure if they have bulk coffee? Their name brand coffee bags have the roast date on them (vs. "best by" BS dates) so I zeroed in on that and didn't look back.

Also Stop'n'Shop, a very much NOT a bougie food store, has bulk coffee with a grinder. At least in some locations.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#267

Post by wahnfrieden »

azemetre wrote: post #258
infecto wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately your kind of argument is what often comes up in ecological debates. I am not denying the impact of microplastics but raising the point that it is a complicated equation. Banning plastics is just a silly comment. What about tires, medical devices, plastic jugs to get water to people with no access to clean water. It is an easy argument to make if you might be in a place of privilege and you can hand wave…

I'm not talking about just banning plastics (it should be banned involving anything food related IMO) but actually taxing these materials as the hazardous materials they surely are. Why would you ever expect a bottling plant to move away from plastic when there is no incentive? Why would anyone move to better materials or continue researching when there are cheaper alternatives that aren't rightfully taxed against th…

It's possible but there is no voting solution to achieve it

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#268

Post by yunwal »

jgalt212 wrote: post #213
Hizonner wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what's more efficient than glass? Ship the product in bulk and dispense it into the customer's container. And a lot of products could actually be formulated on site, because most of, say, your cleaning aisle is various combinations of relatively few standard components. The biggest barrier there are certain people's desires to control information and to create the perception of distinctions that don't exist.

> You know what's more efficient than glass? Ship the product in bulk and dispense it into the customer's container. yeah, that would be a great use of everyone's time. line up at the olive oil station, line up at the beer station, line up at the flour station, line up at the coffee station, line up at the ketchup station, .... and then on top of that, add up the time and expense of everyone getting a different price…

You know what’s actually a waste of my time? Cleaning out my fridge of all the food waste generated because I couldn’t actually buy just 1 carrot, I have to buy 3 pounds wrapped in plastic for some reason.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#269

Post by juujian »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #223

> Currently only about 3% of PP products are being recycled in the United States, but it is becoming more widely accepted So now the relatively small amount of mass in the cap is just as recyclable as the bottle itself -- neither are actually going to be recycled. There's nothing to see here but marketing. And a an interesting engineering puzzle solved, sure. "How Big Oil Misled The Public Into Believing Plastic Woul…

Yup. recyclable != will be recycled. If recyclers don't know that the cap specifically is recycable, it won't be recycled. In fact, if only this brands cup is recycable, the chance of it being recycled is probably 0

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#270

Post by infecto »

azemetre wrote: post #258
infecto wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately your kind of argument is what often comes up in ecological debates. I am not denying the impact of microplastics but raising the point that it is a complicated equation. Banning plastics is just a silly comment. What about tires, medical devices, plastic jugs to get water to people with no access to clean water. It is an easy argument to make if you might be in a place of privilege and you can hand wave…

I'm not talking about just banning plastics (it should be banned involving anything food related IMO) but actually taxing these materials as the hazardous materials they surely are. Why would you ever expect a bottling plant to move away from plastic when there is no incentive? Why would anyone move to better materials or continue researching when there are cheaper alternatives that aren't rightfully taxed against th…

I don't think I generally agree with a plastic tax but lets imagine there was one. I am honestly not even sure how you would set the price, my whole point is the externalities are hard to measure. I also suspect the cost of the implementation will be on the shoulders of the consumer. We can hand wave it away and say we can create more rules to prevent it but at the end of the day that is most likely what will happen.
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