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Is the emergence of life an expected phase transition in the evolving universe?

arxiv.org

261–270 of 404 posts

Re: Is the emergence of life an expected phase transition in the evolving universe?

#261

It's fascinating to me that the complexity of life always goes up. Outside extinction events, complex life generally seems to become more favourable over time. It's interesting that (to my knowledge) we don't see an ecosystem lose complexity in its entirety unless it's dying. Simple organisms make a bedrock for complex organisms, and while the complex organisms have more specific needs, they are better at exploring,…

I would say we have a complex organism bias though, really the most successful life is simple, more than 90% of earth's biomass is plants, ants, fungi, bacteria (obviously some of those are more complex than others, but none of them are posting on HN quite).

Sounds like the complexity of life follows a power law distribution, where most of it is simple to moderately complex, but a few species are orders of magnitude more complex than the vast majority. Eg, the vast majority of complexity among living organisms derives from just a few species.

Re: Is the emergence of life an expected phase transition in the evolving universe?

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely adore the simplicity behind this: Energy must balance, so it flows from high concentrations to lower concentrations. Things that help that flow are selected for. From that springs everything we are. Utterly amazing to me that from a gradient plus some random chemicals plus time equals humans, sex, violence, loss, birth, love, games, music, and so much more. All just to help the earth cool down a little b…

Absolutely none of this follows

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Re: Is the emergence of life an expected phase transition in the evolving universe?

#263

To my laymen brain this seems very similar to Lee Cronin's Assembly theory. Curious to understand more about the difference.

First thing that came to my lay mind as well. Really interesting episode with him talking about it on Lex Fridman's podcast. Feels like there's something there.

Re: Is the emergence of life an expected phase transition in the evolving universe?

#264
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because AI is (for now at least) shaped and constrained by us humans rather than developing free based on the laws of the universe. Is it really "evolution" if a judge can rule that it violates copyright and stop all progress overnight? Or a random developer can add a bit of code to make sure the answers appease the right set of people? What we have today is a crude software approximation mimicking what we think…

> shaped and constrained by us humans rather than developing free based on the laws of the universe This logic doesn't hold. Humans are part of the universe and obey all its laws. It's arbitrary to say bacteria and bonobos and stone tools are naturally occurring but AI aren't. We distinguish them because we're conscious and we have the experience of choice, but to say our creations aren't natural to the universe impl…

It feels like you’re simply stating the predators and outside influences that are affecting AI’s evolution. Humans killed the dodo, maybe we kill the AI next

Re: Is the emergence of life an expected phase transition in the evolving universe?

#265

It's fascinating to me that the complexity of life always goes up. Outside extinction events, complex life generally seems to become more favourable over time. It's interesting that (to my knowledge) we don't see an ecosystem lose complexity in its entirety unless it's dying. Simple organisms make a bedrock for complex organisms, and while the complex organisms have more specific needs, they are better at exploring,…

Hey this dude comes to mind. Anyone remember him? Whatever came of his theories?

I found them to be implausible due to the implications they’d have on the Drake equation

https://www.quantamagazine.org/a-new-thermodynamics-theory-o...

https://xkcd.com/384/

Re: Is the emergence of life an expected phase transition in the evolving universe?

#266
post #173

There is a whole genre of these, starting with (as mentioned in the paper's introduction) "What is Life?" by Schrodinger. I've been idly working my way through a bunch of them, including Monod's "Chance and Necessity" (dated but excellent), Nick Lane's whole series of books (notably "The Vital Question"), Nurse's "What is Life?" (good if you want to learn about yeast), Zimmer's "Life's Edge" (haven't finished it yet,…

It's a complex topic. I think it really got kicked off with "What is Life?" and we've been able to build more details on it since then. There are many parts of the story that we know in incredible details. Chaos theory, information theory, non-equillibrium thermodynamics, complexity and emergence, auto-catalytic chemistry are all just parts of it, and each one are massive fields of study on their own. I'm not sure th…

Agree on “What is Life?” but recently learned that Leo Szilard is the first one to connect entropy and life, in a 1929 paper.

https://fab.cba.mit.edu/classes/863.18/notes/computation/Szi...

Szilard seems to have been involved in everything.

Re: Is the emergence of life an expected phase transition in the evolving universe?

#267
post #6

> We are, truly, Of Nature, not Above Nature. This sentiment has always made me question when people say things are "unnatural", "artificial", or "synthetic": If we ourselves are of nature, and these things are a byproduct of us, then aren't they naturally occurring? edit: added "synthetic" to reduce ambiguity.

I feel that people who are clever enough to raise this question are also clearly clever enough to answer it for themselves.

Anyway, operationally speaking the difference is in how easily the matter in question can be digested by living things.

If it's easy to digest it's food, if it can't be digested at all then it's worse than artificial: it's anti-life.

Re: Is the emergence of life an expected phase transition in the evolving universe?

#268
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless AI augments our brains somehow Frankly, the more I think about AI, the less sense it makes to me that biological, single-body humans have any place in the future. As soon as we can digitize our minds, why wouldn't people begin to do so? Bodies could be inhabited at will, and death will be a thing of the past as we're able to store backups. I'm sure some will refuse and be left behind, just as we have Amish c…

Digitization is one direction but I think augmentation is perhaps a more likely one. Or a first one. Digitization can follow in a "Ship of Theseus" fashion. And augmentation branches then in AI as symbiont versus AI as desktop assistant.

> Digitization is one direction but I think augmentation is perhaps a more likely one. Or a first one.

First seems likely, but as a permanent alternative I don't know why a species would eschew lightspeed transportation and effortless immortality for the fragility and slowness of an organic body. It's possible there are good reasons, but I don't know of any.

Re: Is the emergence of life an expected phase transition in the evolving universe?

#269

I sat in on one of Stephen Wolfram’s YouTube lectures on his new physics project, and asked him about his conception of life in the big picture of physics. His perspective was that (if I may take the liberty of paraphrasing him) there’s nothing particularly special about life from the perspective of physics. What we call life simply correlates to parts of the physical world that have the highest degree of complexity…

Ok. What's an example of something low but non-zero on the spectrum of life? I'm having trouble thinking of one that isn't more properly "life-like".

All the ingredients of the primordial soup that bacteria grew from - water, methane, carbohydrates.
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