Why is this discussion not reaching the from front-page?
Is it a taboo here to discuss about organizing/unionizing?
Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]
261–270 of 454 posts
Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is “firing” 50 people different from “laying off” 50 people?
In some countries yes. In the UK if you want to make 20 or more roles "redundant", you have to group employees by reasonable groups, rank them by reasonable measures, and then let go those at the bottom. You also have to consult with employee representatives at each stage. Then, employees are entitled to minimum compensation amounts and that isn't taxed in the normal way. Much of Europe has similar or stronger proces…
I think another key aspect of "redundancy" in the UK is that it is a claim that the person's role is no longer needed, and hiring someone else for that role soon afterwards can be seen as invalidating that claim and thus invalidating the dismissal.
Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would say so. This video is a perfect demonstration of America's "at-will employment" culture. It's extremely asymmetrical, too. Companies can fire you at any moment, for any reason (with or without cause!)... yet it is considered rude for employees to not provide ample notice when deciding to voluntarily quit.
> It's extremely asymmetrical, too. I’ve lived a very different culture than you in the U.S. - to the degree I’m surprised to see you express this sentiment. In days of yore, people gave notice. But then a meme policy of “don’t poison the well” did the rounds. Roughly, the philosophy went: when someone is leaving they can only do harm; they are leaving, they have a convincing reason for leaving, and you don’t want th…
What do you mean immediately dismissed? Like you don't have to go to work but still get paid, right? Or do they get fired? After they quit?
Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]
#264Why did HR lead with it being performance based? It makes no sense given that this is very clearly part of a layoff. And especially so since they had no details. All they did was set themselves up for a very bad conversation with anyone who asked why. It comes off doubly worse because they kept repeating the same “we got nothing” reply because it removes all perceived empathy from the interaction.
To be clear, I don’t see this as a fault of the messengers. I see this as a reflection of the company leadership and/or culture. I’ve experienced multiple layoffs in my life (on both sides). Surprisingly, only one went poorly and was a clear reflection of leadership’s historical behavior. So I’m leaning towards believing that this is on Cloudflare’s leadership.
Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
You worked at a company for 7.5 years and were actually performing. Person in the video worked for a company for 5 months as a sales-person and closed 0 sales. You are not the same.
[flagged]
> Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling…
Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]
#266I get why Brittany's mad: Cloudflare appears to be handling this about as bad as possible. But those two HR randos aren't gonna have anything worthwhile to say, either. I don't want to be judgmental of Brittany because it's a sucky call to have to take. But my recommendation in this situation is to say "I disagree with that assessment of my performance, but I understand you are terminating my employment. What details…
Is this a US thing where the company doesn't want to give any reasons for firing someone because that can be used in a lawsuit against them?
It may be a legal issue but companies handle it the same way in France: make impossible demands as part of a Performance Improvement Plan (PIP), and then fire without giving a real explanation.
Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not sure who I am either, but in no way did I say "this is ok". I'm saying there's nothing to be gained to prolonging the talk with two drones from HR. Maybe I'm missing something. What's your best case scenario for how the call goes? What is the biggest potential upside?
> What is the biggest potential upside? Emotional well-being? Being able to show love to yourself through the knowledge that you stood up for the value of your labor and dedication when it was being unfairly dismissed? Job loss is significantly traumatic, especially in the US where it is linked to the ability to receive medical care. There's a class of response that sounds like "there was no point in doing this, you…
Showing myself love by not wasting time arguing with two human brick walls in HR. I guess based on the comments here, giving the drones who were uninvolved in the decision a piece of your mind makes some people happy. To me nothing else could be more frustrating.
Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]
#268Earlier quoted context omitted.
What case? At will employment is a thing. You can terminate people with absolutely no reason if you want, most of the time.
There are a host of laws regarding termination, even in at will states, especially for companies of Cloudflare's size. Giving an invalid reason that is unsupported by facts is generally a strong place for a lawyer to assert "wrongful termination" and invoke those laws.
That's a false accusation.
They gave a reason: performance and the girl mentioned to have 0 sales + 3 opportunities.
I wouldn't bet a penny on that lawsuit to win.
Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In my books she did well, You don't have the details and she had 0 sales. You're basing yourself on a TikTok video, with someone who knew it was being recorded and acted accordingly. Eg. Cloudflare 's products are very technical and perhaps she has too little general IT knowledge to be able to close a deal ( she mentioned to have 3 chances and closed 0 )
As someone very close to an ex-CF employee, I can state with authority that the company does very little to help it's employees come up to speed. Their training process is essentially a bunch of CF employees doing unimpressive powerpoint presentations. Their internal documentation is a huge Wiki and it's not really very well maintained. Their internal config management system is absolute trash and I'm convinced that…
That would surprise me.
Based on contact with their support + social media + communication here + being a customer + discord + attending, although infrequently, community calls.
Since you posted the link and I see very little history here, I can't acknowledge your claim of authority yet and I can only suspect, without certainty, personal grievances or conflicts of interests.
Additionally, I find the correlation between the video as a proof of "culture warning" severely lacking.
The details about underperformers in sales and related company actions were explained on investor day around May 2023. This seems correlated to those events...
Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why not? It is precisely what these HR people are doing to every person they call.
Because they're people who are also just trying to do a job. I'm sure there are some sadists out there who take pleasure in this kind of meeting, but I'm just as sure that for every one of those, there are a hundred (or a thousand) people for whom this is the worst part of their job, who go home and hug their kids with watery eyes at the end of a day that was horrible for them. You aren't mad at them, you're mad at t…
It's all about the ethics of it.
If my employer tells me to call a person and tell them they are fired because they did a bad job, but it's clear that this is not the reason, I would say: sorry, but I'm not going to do that. Remember, it's an "employer", not a "boss".