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IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

nytimes.com

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Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#261

Post by rayiner »

int_19h wrote: post #254
ksenzee wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's this idea that west coast cities are shitholes, and honestly it's BS. I live in the Seattle suburbs and I'm downtown regularly, and the only obvious problem is the public disorder visited on us all by Martin v. Boise. It's pretty clear from housing prices that wealthy people are still happy living in Seattle: the market is speaking loudly. Don't get me wrong—I live in the suburbs for a reason, you couldn't pa…

I agree that in many cases there isn't any substance behind the talk. Yet the single largest state-to-state flow of people is from California to Texas, not the other way around; surely there's something objective that is driving that. And, given the time and effort required for such a move, it's not something most people would do on a whim without doing at least some research.

An even better comparison in California to California. The year Apple IPOed, Reagan handily won California. Santa Clara County only voted a democrat for President twice between 1948 and 1987–LBJ (who won 20 points nationwide), and weirdly enough Hubert Humphrey. In the founding and golden ages of Silicon Valley, it was a red suburb in a red state. It was like what Florida is now.

Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#262

Post by ksenzee »

int_19h wrote: post #254
ksenzee wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's this idea that west coast cities are shitholes, and honestly it's BS. I live in the Seattle suburbs and I'm downtown regularly, and the only obvious problem is the public disorder visited on us all by Martin v. Boise. It's pretty clear from housing prices that wealthy people are still happy living in Seattle: the market is speaking loudly. Don't get me wrong—I live in the suburbs for a reason, you couldn't pa…

I agree that in many cases there isn't any substance behind the talk. Yet the single largest state-to-state flow of people is from California to Texas, not the other way around; surely there's something objective that is driving that. And, given the time and effort required for such a move, it's not something most people would do on a whim without doing at least some research.

Hm. We have plenty of Washington-to-Texas migration from the suburbs, and there's no serious contention that, say, Auburn and Kent are mismanaged by Democrats. I know multiple families who have left for Texas in the last few years, and it wasn't "this place has crap government," it was "this place is woke." That is, they wanted more "traditional values" in their kids' schools and fewer BLM and pride flags. To me that's a valid and objective reason to leave (and honestly they're welcome to go, I don't want them running for school board even if we are friends) but it doesn't support the contention that government here is incompetent. It just means government here is socially liberal, which it unquestionably is.

Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#263

Post by hedora »

breadwinner wrote: post #231

A better idea would be to simplify the tax code so that you don't need complex software to calculate taxes. Maybe even simplify it so much, and make it automatic, so that most people don't have to file tax returns, which is how it works in the UK [1]. [1] https://www.gov.uk/income-tax/how-you-pay-income-tax

One advantage of universal basic income plus a flat tax is that you get a progressive tax system, and it drastically simplifies both the tax code and welfare systems.

It also eliminates tax loopholes, and prevents people from accidentally being paid not to work, being denied bending on a technicality, etc.

Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#264

Post by ksenzee »

rayiner wrote: post #260
ksenzee wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's this idea that west coast cities are shitholes, and honestly it's BS. I live in the Seattle suburbs and I'm downtown regularly, and the only obvious problem is the public disorder visited on us all by Martin v. Boise. It's pretty clear from housing prices that wealthy people are still happy living in Seattle: the market is speaking loudly. Don't get me wrong—I live in the suburbs for a reason, you couldn't pa…

That doesn’t really respond to the point, though. Is Seattle’s government efficient and effective? To my recollection, Seattle doesn’t have great public services.

It doesn't look to me (from 20 miles away) as if Seattle's government is notably efficient or effective, and I'd even say one-party rule is partly to blame: opposition parties serve a useful purpose. But I don't think the standard Republican sneer of "look what a crappy job the Democrats do of running the big cities" makes any sense, either. The things Republicans are pointing at as symptoms of bad Democratic government are mostly just side effects of what people in American cities like.

Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#265

Post by hedora »

wolfgang42 wrote: post #222
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's moronic that they got rid of that. I would say (as someone whose taxes will never take less than several hours) that those 30 minutes are about 28 minutes too many.

My understanding is that they replaced the 1040/1040EZ split with a simplified Form 1040+Schedules 1/2/3, so instead of getting a short form (which only applied to a limited set of situations) or a long form, you always get a shorter one, plus only the addenda needed for your situation.

There was a push in 2017 to make filing taxes more miserable (it was an explicit goal of Trump).

That was also the year when they intentionally broke the withholding calculations so that people end up owing a big unpredictable amount of money when they file, are more likely to be fined for it, etc.

Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#266

Post by cwbriscoe »

attentive wrote: post #244
practicemaths wrote: post #44

I just file my taxes by hand and mail it in. Somewhat less concern with 3rd parties holding my information and losing it to leaks/hacks. It is free. A little obnoxious but the forms do have instructions/directions.

There are standalone apps like turbotax that remove 3d party leaks/hacks concerns. You can still print and mail offline.

Does it save the returns locally or on their servers?

Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#267

Post by geodel »

roddds wrote: post #245
remarkEon wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's really a distraction. It seems illogical for the government to not have a free, easy way for the taxpayer to remit their taxes to the government (or submit the paperwork that should generate a return from that government). But at the same time I think it's fine to be skeptical that you should trust the government to be honest in showing you what amount of taxes you actually owe given how complicate…

I'm sorry if this is stupid - I'm not American and this is entire conversation about taxes here is nuts, but: >Is the free-filing system designed to maximize your return? Why does it need to? I mean, why do you need a tax return, if your taxes would be lower if you just got charged the right amount in the first place? And then isn't the role of society to audit their own taxes, and at the same time support candidates…

Well this is indeed stupid.

> if you just got charged the right amount in the first place?

right amount is loaded phrase. There is big range and disagreement over what is right amount.

> And then isn't the role of society ... to simplify the tax code?

It is about as intelligent as saying isn't it role of society that ensure we all live peacefully, then we don't need armies, defense budgets and so on.

Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#268

Post by iambateman »

remarkEon wrote: post #226
iambateman wrote: post #223

Just one thing to add… The “IRS will functionally increase taxes” argument is a distraction and I doubt anyone here takes it seriously. But the argument matters because it has given Congress political cover to let Intuit keep leeching off the system, so a response is in order. Congress should require the IRS to give every person an auditable receipt of every tax they paid in a standard format. Then, truly public-mind…

I don't think it's really a distraction. It seems illogical for the government to not have a free, easy way for the taxpayer to remit their taxes to the government (or submit the paperwork that should generate a return from that government). But at the same time I think it's fine to be skeptical that you should trust the government to be honest in showing you what amount of taxes you actually owe given how complicate…

Skepticism is welcome on all things government.

But most of the time our government does sketchy things away from the attention and affliction of the selectorate.

If millions of influential people were using a system, the IRS would have an extremely strong incentive to avoid negative PR through chicanery.

And we already have an incentive problem in the current setup, anyway.

Re: IRS to begin trial of its own free tax-filing system

#270

Post by attentive »

cwbriscoe wrote: post #266
attentive wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are standalone apps like turbotax that remove 3d party leaks/hacks concerns. You can still print and mail offline.

Does it save the returns locally or on their servers?

locally, in case of TT it's optionally password protected. Also it can create pdf's with filled in forms to print.
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