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Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

businessinsider.com

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Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#261

Post by lukas099 »

mvdtnz wrote: post #161
lukas099 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People focus too much on edge cases when making life decisions, imo. > We need a dining room for when we have parties (has a party once every 2 years; room sits empty 99% of the time) > We need a guest bedroom (guests could stay at the hotel down the street) > I need a pickup truck (driver is an accountant who maybe picks up a couple bags of mulch from Lowes twice a year) I'm glad I live in a prosperous society where…

The edge cases are the important cases though. Those parties I throw are the highlight of my year. My parents staying here with me is important to me, I wouldn't have it any other way. Yeah I have a desk job but that landscaping work I do in my weekend is one of my favourite hobbies. I refuse to live my life as if these things aren't important to me. I refuse to average my entire life style down to my median day. My…

Totally agree that the edge cases are important. But people spend too much on owning equipment for them that would make more sense to rent.

Take the dining room example. A quick search says it costs ~$20,000 to build a dining room, so let's say a house with one costs $10,000 more than a house without. So by foregoing a dining room, one now has an extra 10k that they can spend however they want.

But that DOESN'T mean that they can't spend it on throwing parties! I'm pretty sure that even spread over many years, 10k dollars can produce a lot of fun times.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#262

Post by acchow »

lukas099 wrote: post #78
rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

People focus too much on edge cases when making life decisions, imo. > We need a dining room for when we have parties (has a party once every 2 years; room sits empty 99% of the time) > We need a guest bedroom (guests could stay at the hotel down the street) > I need a pickup truck (driver is an accountant who maybe picks up a couple bags of mulch from Lowes twice a year) I'm glad I live in a prosperous society where…

The “edge” cases in life are what many people live for. Tho, in the car scenario, it can definitely be handled by renting what you need when you need it.

A hotel is not a replacement for people staying with you. You do not get the same intimacy.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#263

Post by zmgsabst »

rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

If you have 93% of your trips under 30mi, and have 1 trip per day, you have 25 over 30mi per year — or about 2 per months.

40mi per day indicates that’s probably 2 trips per day, hence 4 over 30mi per month.

Worrying your car can’t go to the mountains and back to ski on the weekend (or whatever) seems valid — and why those 73% of people are concerned.

Telling me I shouldn’t worry about having a weekend getaway because it’ll do me fine going to and from work is a loser sales pitch. As many here have pointed out.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#265

Post by speedgoose »

> Plus, heavier electric vehicles are harder on roads.

It’s true but the author should check the fourth power law. Most of the road wear comes from the heavyweight vehicles, the trucks. The little weight increase on personal vehicles isn’t that bad for the roads.

Making lightweight electric cars is also possible, the old bmw i3 was light, but it’s more expensive.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#266

Post by tshaddox »

rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

> The argument is a clear strawman; it's playing down what people have genuine concerns with and focusing on the range aspect that's obviously unimportant.

The author is free to disagree about whether a particular consumer’s concerns are reasonable.

If some particular consumer believes that an EV would have numerous significant benefits for their every day driving, but is concerned that a single weekend trip per year will take an hour longer with an EV due to charging, the author is free to have the opinion that this consumer is not weighing those benefits and costs in a reasonable way.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#267

Post by Affric »

mvdtnz wrote: post #161
lukas099 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People focus too much on edge cases when making life decisions, imo. > We need a dining room for when we have parties (has a party once every 2 years; room sits empty 99% of the time) > We need a guest bedroom (guests could stay at the hotel down the street) > I need a pickup truck (driver is an accountant who maybe picks up a couple bags of mulch from Lowes twice a year) I'm glad I live in a prosperous society where…

The edge cases are the important cases though. Those parties I throw are the highlight of my year. My parents staying here with me is important to me, I wouldn't have it any other way. Yeah I have a desk job but that landscaping work I do in my weekend is one of my favourite hobbies. I refuse to live my life as if these things aren't important to me. I refuse to average my entire life style down to my median day. My…

> I refuse to live my life as if these things aren't important to me. I refuse to average my entire life style down to my median day. My median day is boring.

Well said. And I think that you cut to the heart of what the electric vehicle advocates are doing wrong. They are telling us the only times we actually enjoy being in the car and travelling are the ones we should give up.

I don’t use a car in the city. An electric car can’t yet take me home in 2 days without perfect conditions and a tailored root.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#268

Post by ccheney »

BobaFloutist wrote: post #20
nostrademons wrote: post #4

A lot of common talking points from the anti-EV FUD going around - EVs are heavier, sales are going down (even though they're not, according to the data presented in the article), EVs don't have enough range. Ask an EV owner and they don't care. It's almost like there might be vested corporate interests (say, Big Oil?) pushing a narrative here? https://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html

Someone does need to pay to maintain the roads, however, and if ICEs become a smaller and smaller part of cars on the roads, the gas tax will cover less and less of the cost (and they already don't fully cover the costs of road maintenance).

Many states are already addressing this by imposing additional fees on EVs. For example, states like California, Minnesota, Illinois, and Texas have implemented annual fees for EV owners, which are specifically designed to offset the loss in gas tax revenue and contribute to road maintenance.

In my state (MN) I'm actually paying more in annual EV fees/taxes then if I drove an ICE vehicle of comparable value

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#269

Post by screye »

SEJeff wrote: post #251
screye wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. The sustainable alternative to EVs is hybrids, not gas guzzlers. Hybrids can be smaller, cheaper, lighter and gentler on the grid. Each of these matter. Heavier cars cause significantly higher road wear [1], particulate pollution [2] and occupy more space. EVs by necessity, are heavier. This is especially evident in America's favorite product categories : SUVs and Trucks. The Ford- F150 lightning is 1.5x…

Hybrids have the most maintenance and catch on fire more than 10x more than EVs. They are solving a problem that shouldn't be solved.

Car fires aren't the a significant enough cause of car crash deaths to matter.

Maintenance seems to be a manufacturer problem more so than a hybrid vs others problem. Toyota Priuses have been the beater Taxi of America for a good decade now. These hybrids are troopers.

If Rivian and Tesla maintenance stories are any indication, Full-EVs seem to be an order of magnitude behind on dealing with problems during the ownership period.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#270

Post by samus »

iteria wrote: post #94
lukas099 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People focus too much on edge cases when making life decisions, imo. > We need a dining room for when we have parties (has a party once every 2 years; room sits empty 99% of the time) > We need a guest bedroom (guests could stay at the hotel down the street) > I need a pickup truck (driver is an accountant who maybe picks up a couple bags of mulch from Lowes twice a year) I'm glad I live in a prosperous society where…

It's about how often the edge case comes up. 4 to 12 times a year, I need to drive 300 miles to visit my family. 10 to 30 times a year, I'll drive 50 to 60 miles to visit friends/family or see specialist doctors or take trip to some interesting event. But on the vast majority of days I drive less than 10 miles a day. My edge cases come up fairly frequently and I don't really have a good fall back for them i could spe…

If the edge cases are about missing charging infrastructure: this is not an inherent issue with EVs since the infrastructure for ICEs is simply way more developed. It will slowly become better as EVs become more prevalent.

It's a more difficult issue for very long range drives where an ICEs full range is required to get to the next gas station.

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