Can we talk about the fact iOS/macOS turns on the Wifi and Bluetooth radios after each system update? Almost as if the devices were made deliberately to maximize spying, contrary to the marketing lullabies.
Yeah I find this incredibly annoying.
Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs
261–270 of 327 posts
Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t think you can unless you have a jailbroken device. If I remember correctly, entitlements are store in the AppStore receipt file.
You can view the entitlements from the extracted ipa by using the codesign tool. So it is totally possible to see if an app has this entitlement.
Oh, I only remembered seeing them inside the mobileprovision file. I’ll take another look, thanks.
Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
What percent of users would agree with you, in your estimation?
I guess I should just give up on privacy, because the typical user prioritizes convenience.
That's your choice! But suggesting everyone operate on a substantially less convenient basis due to your specific desires for privacy seems... selfish.
Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, I more than 100% agree, I am just staing that most people just dont realize just how deeply entangled the mobile is to Asian life. I wasn't praising it, I am horrified, but also in awe by it.
I'm pretty sure most people are very aware that most of east Asia never saw massive PC adoption and so their internet developed in a very mobile-centric way. This hasn't been surprising for a long time?
I'm not sure I agree.
I mean, back when the west had WAP there were articles saying NTT DoCoMo had much more advanced phone technology, sure.
But in terms of making it into the cultural consciousness - you don't see ubiquitous asia-specific mobile super-apps in cultural exports like 'Squid Game' or 'Spy X Family' (admittedly a lot of cultural exports aren't set in the present day)
Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seems like Apple should give users the ability to download an app while rejecting an entitlement.
You can. iOS apps have to request individual permissions - I'm not sure about the specific level of granularity here, but you can deny location access while still letting the rest of the app run, and the app has to be able to deal with it.
It's not a new idea but I would love to see Apple implement a way to serve eg. a fake, empty contact list for an app that refuses to enable a feature unless you allow contact list permissions.
Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs
#266Earlier quoted context omitted.
Certain apps have always gotten special treatment. If it’s big enough to mess with phone sales they’re allowed nonsense a normal dev would be permanently banned for. Ex: all the stuff FB has been caught doing over the years My understanding (no first hand experience) is that WeChat and Alipay are basically required in China. If a phone doesn’t have them, it’s worthless and won’t sell. So naturally they too can do non…
Why does apple get to decide which app gets automatic access to my private data, on my device, without needing to ask me?
Because Apple fundamentally doesn't believe you own the device so the question makes no sense to them. They already own it why would they need to ask you?
Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs
#267It’s worth noting that use of NEHotspotHelper requires a special entitlement (com.apple.developer.networking.HotspotHelper) that you have to apply for, and presumably Apple won’t grant unless your app has a legitimate need for it. That said, this maybe shows an incompatibility between Apple’s privacy strategy and “super-apps” like WeChat and AliPay. When a company shoves all functionality into one app, that app sudde…
> com.apple.developer.networking.HotspotHelper Where do you revoke this entitlement on iOS? Settings → Privacy & Security → Local Network? Or is this something else?
This is one of the special ones so you're not allowed to; Apple picks for you per app.
Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs
#268Earlier quoted context omitted.
This mentality is fascinating to me. In a sense, nobody owns an Apple device. It's more like renting: the landlord keeps a bunch of doors locked and has strict rules, but the place comes pre-furnished and includes millennial-grade amenities. I can see the appeal if you don't particularly care about owning a device, but it blows my mind that people become so dedicated to this way of living.
It's unlikely that if you have a mobile phone, the landlord doesn't keep some doors locked. At minimum - even if you're running de-Googled Android - the baseband blob has high levels of access and you have no control over it. I'm not saying Apple isn't worse with this, but the illusion of phone ownership spreads a lot further.
Baseband blobs are isolated with IOMMU (at least on GrapheneOS https://grapheneos.org/faq#baseband-isolation, but maybe that's also true for stock Pixels idk) and Google spends a lot of effort on baseband security: https://security.googleblog.com/2023/12/hardening-cellular-b...
Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs
#269I thought users were prompted to give permission for this already? I get asked if I want to give “local network” access to apps sometimes (- lot these days actually) which I take to mean the ability to see local WiFi hotspots. I almost always deny this (and after reading this just turned it off for Spotify). I think the dialog that asks for permission could be improved, though, as most people don’t realize this can b…
As a developer, the annoying thing about the "Local Network" permission is that: 1) It's poorly implemented. Unlike other permissions, there's no way to explicitly trigger the prompt. It just pops up at Apple's discretion. There's no way to give it a "soft landing" for cases where it's necessary for core app features. And there's no way to check if the permission has been granted or not. 2) More importantly: Apple's…
No argument from me but regarding workarounds for (1), accessing ProcessInfo.processInfo.hostName has been a reliable pop-up trigger for me for a long time. Eskimo also offers some (esoteric) suggestions for how to notice if your network operation has been denied due to lack of permission: https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/663852
Re: Apple allows some iOS apps to track user locations via lists of nearby SSIDs
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
> FWIW I used WeChat a few years ago and at that point it definitely asked for local network access (which is what this article is about; a mechanism for collecting SSIDs which can then later be correlated to locations). Is that what "local network access" means? I thought that was for controlling network connections to LAN ips and/or to send multicast packets (eg. mdns).
> there was a VPN app I used that didn't have the "local network access" permission, but was still inexplicably able to get a list of wifi networks I connected to It is different from continuously getting a list of all SSIDs within your Wi-Fi range, even those you never connected to. This is what allows shady apps infer location (this, and massive databases of SSID matched to coordinates). What you described is also…
As far as I can tell, Wireguard does it the other way around (i.e. you provide it with a list of SSIDs you want to always enable VPN for, it provides that to the OS, and the OS then only tells the VPN that it needs to get connected).
But according to this [1] post (by an Apple employee?), having an enabled VPN profile seems to indeed be opting the app in to receiving the current SSID without the location permission, at least for some time and since iOS 14.