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'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

aljazeera.com

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Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#261

Post by ashirusnw »

kamikazeturtles wrote: post #204
mupuff1234 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistically that seems quite improbable as Jews are only 0.2% of the worlds population vs the Arab and Muslim world (which majority supports Palestinians) Edit: not to mention the CCP and Russia taking an anti Israel stance as well, both known to conduct massive online campaigns to align with their own agendas.

There are a lot of zionist christians and publications are much safer when reporting from a pro-Israel bias. Most muslims don't speak english so if a muslim is commenting about this topic, they're probably one of the few million in one of the english speaking countries.

jews + usa protestant evangelicals (the only Christians that are specifically pro Zionism) are massively outnumbered by Western world Muslims.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#262

Post by baz00 »

stoorafa wrote: post #158
dang wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been in touch with several Israeli HNers who are in much the same position as you describe, and I admire their, and your, capacity to stay open despite being under orders of magnitude more pressure than most of us here. This is the spirit I'm asking for commenters to find in themselves before posting. (Edit: Lest this seem like an expression of bias: I've been in touch with HNers on the other side of the conflic…

You’ve been in touch with Palestinians use HN? Not to seem one-sided, I didn’t realize Gazans had sufficient internet access, let alone food or water, to browse HN.

Worth noting this isn't an absolute position. There are many Gazans posting on Telegram. They have food, water and internet access. But they seem to be the ones shooting at Israel and other Gazans...

Edit: suspiciously this is downvoted suddenly as well as lots of other unrelated posts of mine. Looks like you can't have a responsible discussion on the internet these days...

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#263

Post by edanm »

nicoburns wrote: post #165
iddan wrote: post #136

[flagged]

Other wars are discussed. There have been threads on Russia vs. Ukraine in recent months. Perhaps Israel look bad in the press because they are acting badly. It seems to me that Israel are unambiguously the stronger power in this conflict: they have are much stronger military, and additionally have the backing of the US and a bunch of other nations that would step in were Israeli territory under threat. And they are…

> And they are using that power to aggressively attack the weaker power in the conflict with little regard for civilian casualties (“collateral damage”) or proportionality of response.

It is certainly aggressively attacking Hamas, but that's because, despite Hamas being weaker, they've shown themselves capable of invading Israel and killing thousands of citizens.

You write "little regard for civilian casualties", but I don't think that's true - please, explain how you arrive at that conclusion.

And proportionality of response doesn't mean what many people think it means - is' not "Hamas kill X people so Israel should kill f(X) people". It's measured by how many civilians would die while achieving a valid military objective. Destroying Hamas is absolutely a valid military objective - the question is if Israel is managing to do it without a disproportianate number of civilians killed.

I think based on the best-known numbers we have - which place the civilian-to-combatant kill ration at 2:1, meaning 2 civilians killed per 1 militant - I think that this is valid and in-line with similar wars fought by Western countries in the past.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#264

Post by dang »

anovick wrote: post #154
dang wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you're of course right—and at the same time, if I ask myself how to follow HN's core principle [1] in relation to this topic, I can't see "don't touch it at all" as right either. It may be an impossible quandary—but it's not in the spirit of this place to take an easy way out; or to put it differently, the easy way out (if one exists) is not in the spirit of this place. What does "curiosity" mean in a context li…

I'm sorry, but even if I concede the notion that this piece promotes "intellectual curiosity" in some amount (how much?), this news source is highly biased and has been found to spread fake news especially on the events since October 7th including current war in Gaza. There is real harm in spreading this information. As you may or may not know, mobs and individuals around the world are fed such false narratives that…

I attempted to answer that question here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38617464, but to add a bit more: the idea on HN has always been to go by article quality, not site quality (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...). An article appearing on HN is by no means an endorsement of the site as a whole, nor of anything else appearing on that site.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#265

Post by holyhelldang »

qwerpy wrote: post #208
nicoburns wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other wars are discussed. There have been threads on Russia vs. Ukraine in recent months. Perhaps Israel look bad in the press because they are acting badly. It seems to me that Israel are unambiguously the stronger power in this conflict: they have are much stronger military, and additionally have the backing of the US and a bunch of other nations that would step in were Israeli territory under threat. And they are…

The way you put it, it sounds like Israel got up in the morning one day and for reasons no one can understand, decided to start inflicting civilian casualties on Palestinians.

[dead]

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#266

Post by Nathanba »

stoorafa wrote: post #189
iddan wrote: post #136

[flagged]

That’s interesting. I think it’s rich that Israel is a “victim” despite having nuclear arms and one of the most advanced militaries in the world, but there’s somehow still a need to torture villagers-turned-refugees en masse. Let alone the fact that antizionism is not antisemitism.

You can have a nuclear missile in your pocket and still be a victim of a guy with a rock that comes up to you from behind. The idea that Israel can't be a victim because they are stronger militarily is absurd, the whole point of terror and guerilla warfare is to win asymmetrically while being militarily inferior

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#267

Post by baz00 »

psipisi wrote: post #246
ido wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, Dang. As someone on the Israeli left I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place- I do not condone Netanyahu and his government and am indeed very critical of Israeli governments of the past decades. But on the other side, my 78 year old mother is fleeing to shelter every couple hours as my hometown (not anywhere near the west bank or the Gaza strip) gets hit by rockets, as do my young nieces and nephe…

[flagged]

I think the feminist in question wants attribution for herself rather than to make a point.

Both sides have been harmed. The war is about reducing continuing harm from an organisation that literally said that this was just the start of things...

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#268

Post by barryrandall »

banku_brougham wrote: post #5

Im glad to see the community engage with this -- there couldnt be a more significant current event happening right now and its jarring that it would be so silent. Edit: And why is it relevant here? At a minimum coworkers are suffering silently through it. The emotional damage just for internet bystanders is staggering.

It shouldn't be jarring or even surprising that people won't talk about this specific subject, given what frequently happens to people who talk about this specific subject.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#269

Post by adhamsalama »

ashirusnw wrote: post #129
throwboatyface wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All reports are that Netanyahu and the Israeli intelligence services knew this attack was coming. They've been promoting Hamas over more moderate elements in Gaza. The goal was to provoke an attack which would "justify" a counter-attack to completely level Gaza and kill or force out all the remaining civilians.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#270

Post by CloudYeller »

lossolo wrote: post #228
CloudYeller wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree on the apartheid claim and so does former anti-apartheid activist and South African politician Mosiuoa Lekota [1]. Per Wikipedia, Apartheid is a "system of institutionalised racial segregation", and Israel's citizens include many Arab Muslims and even Palestinians, all of whom have equal rights. Israel's declaration of independence explicitly supported "equality...without distinction of race, creed, or sex…

It's interesting that you are citing a former South African politician who opposed apartheid. I will quote a South African journalist who fought against apartheid, published books about it and defended Israel as a non-apartheid state for many years after moving there. Now, he states that it is indeed an apartheid state. "In 2001, I joined Israel’s government delegation to the world conference against racism in Durban…

TBF- Mosiuoa Lekota, who literally went to jail with Nelson Mandela, should probably be listened to more than the random journalist you cited.

I read the article though and it basically is saying that right wing extremism in Israel is doing some things reminiscent of Apartheid South Africa. That doesn't sound systemic - more like a warning that people need to stand up to the right wing extremism is Israel. Fair point. But definitely does not lend credence to the claim that there is widespread systemic Apartheid.

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